Belisarius
.
No bio...
User ID: 2663
Belisarius
.
11mo ago
I agree that Rov is dismissing a valid issue for bad reasons and it is fair to talk of PMC, but as far as I am aware the concept of the Managerial class has its origin in James Burnham's Managerial Revolution. Who is an individual who moved from being a Trotskyist to being a right winger. I believe he wasn't a Trotskyist by the time he wrote the Managerial Revolution but he wrote it at a point where it was just a few years after he broke from Trotskyism, and that intellectual legacy still shaped to an extend the way he analyzed things.
Mass migration as exists in Britain blatantly violates the rights of the native people, to national existence and self determination and leads to violence that is covered up and downplayed by the establishment, in addition to discrimination against the native Britons which is happening in terms of AA and in general transforming are lower caste. Especially where the issue has to do with ethnic group relations.
Britain is also an incredibly totalitarian police state were opponents of this are being arrested and were serious crime is prioritized over persecuting dissent.
At such, you are essentially supporting the eventual destruction of the British people and their current and increasing mistreatment and violation of their rights. That is a transformation into increasingly oppressed second class citzens, until they become a small minority, and under threat of even more radical parties acting worse, or no longer exist as a group.
Of course if rules of the multicultural Britain, about racism were enforced equally, the consequences of advancing such notions would be severe. But one sided application is part of those rule. But even if the absurdly draconian and one sided rules weren't enforced consistently and equally, there is a problem with that position and its influence and with the existence of a network with worldwide adherents whose agenda is to harm groups like the British. There is also a national security lens. Britain has a national security obligation to suppress the faction that promotes mass migration that is so enormously destructive and racist against Britain and the British people.
Outside of the interest of Britain in particular, there is a universal value and an international justice interest in supressing anti european extremism that denies native europeans their legitimate rights and supports their national destruction and transformation of their country into ones were until they are second class citizens with their historical homeland putting Muslims, Blacks, Jews and others above them. Although this interest isn't numerical, the way I see it, international institutions should be captured by people who don't think Europeans are exempt from the national rights that other group deserve. And then enforce a punishment against the networks promoting the opposite agenda, and of course not allow such people to rise through ranks of running things and remove this moral hazard. I would advocate as superior to a situation where it is worldwide group vs group limitless conflict, that we try to impose reasonable reciprical rules worldwide.
Part of this should of course include deportations of plenty of people who got paper making them fake X nation from cultural marxists who are hostile against their own nation (and timing also plays a role, with most mass migration being relatively recent), such as foreign supporters of mass migration, and affirmative action type politics who have been used for the crime of purposeful demographic displacement and replacement but not to deport everyone of foreign background. Not only mass migration ought to stop but the one that already has happened is of an illegitimate nature and a policy that already violated a) the opinion of native majority b) even more importantly than their opinion against mass migration, their interest and right, not to be replaced in their own homeland. Which also comes along with their interest not to be replaced by hostile foreign tribes that retain a foreign identity which is part and parcel of mass migration of a foreign ethnic groups and can't be separated.
However some level of limited migration can be legitimate. Britain should have net negative migration at this point and for quite some time. But you can have a few into the many, who respect the nation of the many, and understand it is the homeland of the natives and willing to make a life there without deconstructing the nation and its legitimacy. Nor are they in sufficient numbers to screw them over, and nor are they being disrespectful. So mass migration of hostile foreigners is inherently an illegitimate agenda that violates the human rights of the native people, which is why it isn't an accident that anti-native ideologues support it, because it helps them do all of their agenda to screw over the native ethnic group, and put above the migrant ethnic groups.
Moreover it is possible for a certain nation state and limited civic nationalism to coexist, provided the later recognised the first. Opposing any nation state leads to communist like soviet new man oppressive societies, and in the current context also comes along with putting migrants first, something that those supporting or oppossing mass migration, should be aware of, and have a duty to be aware of. And a random observer would expect them to be aware of.
Current Britain is one of the more exemplary failure of the ideology of war against nation state.
Anyhow some migrants can be closer to host nation and more easier assimiliable, in addition to the case of others who are small in number and selected for human capital and more important than IQ, friendlyness (with ethnic similarity also working as proxy for that in many cases). The few can more easilly mix and become the many, provided they have the mentality of doing so and don't retain an identity hostile to the natives. Paper Brits like the stabber and many of the rioter counter protesters should not be in places like Britain, but in their actual homelands that they hold greater connection with than they have towards the English, Welsh, Scots, etc people.
Supporting mass migration should qualify as a criteria for recognizing an individual as putting the interest of foreigners first and disregarding the interests of the natives and their ethnic groups. It is a very hostile act. Should matter when considering deportations both in terms of patterns of groups and in terms of specific individuals.
On the other side, it is a prerequisite of a good migrant, or descendant of migrants to support shutting down the door behind them and to like the native nativists more than foreign migrants outside wanting to come in. The state should control such sentiments not only by inviting far less, deporting people after the criminal error at expense of its own people of letting too many whcih inevitably have these hostility, but also should both select those with pro native sentiments, but also try to enforce and encourage among migrants the duty to respect their host nation and their people. Over the sadistic disregard of them that we see as the rising sentiment today. Hence, the kind of people who ought to be prioritized, those more likely to be net drains, criminals but also those who are hostile and make things into a two tier society, even if they are otherwise economically competent.
Additionally, good migrants of foreign ethnicity who proportionately to the natives have to be a smaller proportion, because mass migration of foreigners is itself is a hostile and immoral act should support some level of deportations against the bad migrants that are taking over the country of the Britons and part of the disrespect and two tier society. There is certainly a problem of native, antinativism though that also deserves attention. There is also a possibility for some migrants being in their sentiments of less severe form of extremism and deradicalized. Although too many numbers is it self an issue but I don't care to promote the specific minitia of how this should be enforced since I don't really have a strong opinion on that, but the general template is the obvious response to antinative policy, sentiment being enforced and colonization.
Indeed WW2 provides lessons. The problem of the mid century Germans wasn't that they opposed migration, or didn't like the genuinely evil and european hating Frankfurt school and familiars, which should never have been allowed to take root in USA and from then elsewhere, but that they tried to invade and greatly replace other nations and also disallow them from being nations, having national independence and institutions. Disrespecting legitimate rights of other ethnic groups including atrocities relating to that. Ironically there is a shared element between Frankfurt school types who see their outgroup nationalists as authoritarian personality insane and evil and Germans who were saying that the Russian or Polish nation is a threat, and even modern types like Soros and fellow travelers who consider modern European nations a threat to Jews, Muslims and other so called minorities who actually some of them are worldwide not quite such a small minority.
Well, there were also deportations, including through violence which isn't an example to follow at end of WW2 from places Germans have been there for long, but also there was a reversal of the agenda of Germans to Germanize parts of Europe and replace the non Germans. The later element which was about stopping colonization is the lesson here, not to follow the course of any side fully from WW2 since a lot of bad behavior around even among the less badly behaved parties. And of course in age of decolinization, Europeans left from many countries which also took property restrictions in addition to in some cases, deportations which included a more violent nature than what I advocate.
But Europeans aren't seen as wronged by this, and in fact people claiming to support decolonization claim that mass migration is the new form of decolonization which is of course about colonizing Europeans. In general the correct idea of national rights as part of international justice is commonly accepted, and in fact even plenty of strong reactions can be excused. Well, I am not looking for that, but looking for rules that are consistent in general and protect Europeans and others affected by this too (like perhaps Japanese might start to be targeted), but also with special attention towards those targeted for destruction, to the extend this network is active. International organizations like Amnesty international that pretend that Europeans aren't indigenous, should not exist and that is the fig leave of those who either pretend the rules don't exist, or come with excuses not to apply them to Europeans, or simply don't understand their value.
The agenda to end the existence of Europeans in their homelands is a criminal extremely racist agenda that is against international justice, and the crime of trying to diminish Europeans as a hated dhimni minority is a crime against humanity. Which definitely means that the media who are an organ of masisve power and massive responsibility promoting "mass migration", or a political party having such an agenda, raises to the level of advocating and implementing the kind of things that should not be allowed and makes perfect sense to consider treason. Same for ideological NGOs, or ethnic supremacist organisations advocating on behalf of other groups and expense of Europeans and the general network that makes those working together for such agenda.
Even for laypeople, they have a moral obligation, whatever their ethnicity to not advocate for this, but things escalate when one reaches important institutions where such agenda should not be promoted. Internationally oriented perspective and institutions and also nationally oriented ones where it affects theirs, and people who have both perspectives in a certain mixture, should reject agendas to destroy Europeans or any particular group of ethnic groups, and assert the protection of peoples and their homeland as an obvious core value. So, not only in Britain but international NGOs, or the agenda that results from the leaders of EU, UN, NATO, etc, etc, should of course support the rights of Europeans in their own homeland.
I am confident that I understood your position when I tried to explore your position and found it contradictory and not much different with countless neocons who argued that nationalism for Israel is acceptable under pluralistic grounds but identity politics for whites is unacceptable. I even give people whose position fits into that, as supporting or tolerating identity politics of more extreme and pervasive type, but overly focusing on white identity politics, an opportunity to actually support changing the situation into one where rules are enforced equally and identitarian organisations of the form of ADL, NAACP and similiar are shut down. But they don't even do the cheap rhetorical commitment of doing that.
The reality is if you have a kid that is being ganged upon by a group of other kids, and some of these kids include the establishment right, and you see both clear supporters of other kids, and people whose position might be a little less obvious but still support the other kids, argue that the beaten kid shouldn't fight back, well that position is a) clearly against the other kid b) it is legitimate for people to conclude that the person advocating it is doing it because he is out to get the other kid, and isn't doing it by accident because of an ideological commitment to pacifism.
Which is why people who exercise freedom of speech like Orwell, made exactly such suspicions about some people who promoted pacifism but were actually USSR sympathisers.
I fully understand why people who have such position want people to accept that they are doing nothing wrong, but it is not understanding that you want, but complimentary misunderstanding. Perhaps you would be ok with complimentary understanding where people are willing to accept different standards for Israel and for Europeans as a good thing which we have seen plenty of such rhetoric in both the motte and outside of it. And you don't show hostility to it ever.
Not to mention it is fair to explore the end results of what you advocate, and all the shared ground you plural who advocate similiar positions, and you singular have with blatant ethnic activists and far left activists, and to note such similarities.
Also fully fair to note that the fact that collective identity politics don't exist, is a self evidently false statement, including about ethnic groups and also a very destructive and radical notion. Just one that is pervasive promoted against right wingers by gatekeepers in the USA because of the success of activists who have been antiwhite, and have used it as part of motte and bailey against whites.
Establishment types in the places where this radical ideologues and activists have been successful and all sort of lower level "thought leaders" who share this type of ideology, have constantly, just as you have demonstrated again, be completely hostile to discussing such issues, showing a complete lack of respect towards any dissenters.
Political correctness in favor of the position against collective group interest and positive identity, and also against especially europeans is enforced through slander, vilification and censorship and enormous lack of charity. One especially willing to use such methods have been those who want two tiers world in regards to Israel and Jewish nationalism and European nationalism, where they are willing to support a huge excess of the first, while opposing the healthy legitimate rights of the later.
This is to say, people who try to accurately explore these issues are attacked for doing so, by people who want to enforce a doublethink on them and get away with agendas that are very destructive against certain groups. Supporters of the modern antinative establishment and negative group identity for europeans, do not and have never shown anything but lack of charity against anyone who opposes this agend.
Accurately revealing the ugly side of how the sausage is made leads to such reaction. So there is typically and here again a lot of of projection about lack of charity, when you are being incredibly uncharitable in dismissing everything the other party has said.
Although, while such issues ought to be adequately explored, it is also true that the advocate of X or Y radical destructive position, isn't in itself someone who ought to have any megaphone. This machine/network which is so enthusiastic about shutting down any timid collectivism for their oppressed outgroup, should be suppressed.
It is justifiable in general for people to both criticize, and oppose agendas that are very destructive towards other groups, (especially when the other group being harmed is their own group), and even more so when they don't fit into grey areas.
Opposing such things is being charitable towards the innocent and those harmed by them, while not opposing them is being uncharitable. Those who do promote a very destructive agenda, are not treated unfairly if their agenda is stated accurately and therefore are in that manner criticized for it. Nor if they are criticized more directly than I did here. And neither if they are stopped from harming people.
We ought to look at consequences, have important moral priors and not excuse ideological window dressing that tries to frame something that is very destructive and comes along with double standards, or oppressive, by misstating it and promoting an inaccurately complimentary positive frame. Whether it is the positive version of the strawman, or it simply indifferent to the damage the ideology does.
But we do need a world that discusses and explores such issues, which is a requirement to understand why some perspectives are destructive. And part of this includes sharing good moral priors.
Like the ones I argued about reciprocity, consistency, understanding the successes that comes from internationalism of reciprocoal nationalism, and the destructive nature of not allowing nations to exist, etc, etc. Or the importance of not covering the substance of what is happening by frames that excuse and mislead. Believe me, I don't explore and argue such things just cause I woke one morning and thought "I have it out against naraburns" but because such issues that you devalue, in a manner that is genuinely extremely destructive against Europeans, are legitimately valuable. When I say this path had lead to disaster, is because it did and does. That doesn't mean that in a place here, I am not debating it. But it isn't an issue where your position is a reasonable way to explore the issue of european group interests, or of nationalism.
There is plenty of debate to be had about legitimate issues that exist in the grey lines, even though whether collective group interests, or collective group interests exist, is not only the case where the position you have advocated is wrong, but it also is one of those issues that we can explore and have correct conclusions about why you are wrong. Note that this isn't an opportunity for a claim that justifies censorship on the basis of opposing close midnedness. Because the view that your position is very wrong, and advocating something destructive and self evidently unreasonable is legitimate. People don't have to treat proposition like "collective interests don't exist" as valid, when they are highly invalid claims.
The existence of illegitimate issues that political corectness tries to enforce is why political corectness comes along with postmodernism as a means to promote and weaponize excessive subjectivity on the issues it can be demonstrated to be wrong. And then assert very radical positions confidently and cancel dissenters.
Such as the arrogant path against nations, that so often comes along with authoritarianism. The advocates of the "antinationalist agenda" are pervasively, and not only on those openly identifying as part of the left, or woke, those where they see some groups as inherently more reactionary, and some as inherently more equal. This is a common trend among the anti nationalist anti collective group interest faction.
Both an agenda against the existence of nations, and even more radically, collective group interest in general and specifically the agenda against particular nations like European nations, is not hard to decipher that it is a destructive position. The "no collectivism" arguement against whites isn't a mystery, of how it is connected with current antiwhite practices, laws.
Nor is it had to imagine how the current radical status quo will lead in the future in a worsening situation, as the demographics who supporting doubling down on such issues, increase, and as authoritarian measures against dissenters are intensified. And while those doing so, gain legitimacy by advocacy against collective group interests who focus their ire the "identitarian right" and cover up for the establishment in the places where such establishment has been sufficiently captured by racist radicals and those who compromise and comprise with them on such issues a unipaty. Saying that what the position you advocate for, ends in those consequences is an accurate observation about the influence of what you advocate.
Of course, people should explore such issues enough to understand how certain perspectives pave the way to hell. Even if you want us not to be able to do so.
But the end point is to understand what is happening and stop building the road to hell. Not deny its existence, attack those who point it. And certainly not to compliment the ideologies that lead us there.
The main two issues with women politically are:
A) Feminism. Enough women as a block converge politically and feel entitled to preferential treatment. Additionally, they prioritise careerism over motherhood, and sympathize with the general liberal and progressive framework. Women like other demographics, including non female liberals, have become entitled and dogmatic.
I believe it isn't all in biology but there is an effect directly related to the way liberals (and supposed right wingers who in practice compromised with progressive liberalism) pander to a group and then that group becoming receptive of this pandering. That ideology and way it frames things about how "we women" (and blacks, Jews, etc) need to fight for women rights and against misogyny, creates a radicalized entited mentality. But this isn't just a woman problem, but also a problem of other identities pandered, and of the ideologues who buy into this. These people are never going to compromise, but deny and deflect the unreasonable privilidges and society destroying aspects of the dogma, and play up the weakman/strawman of any alternatives.
It is a good thing to be hostile to people biased in a feminist and anti male direction.
An aspect of this is going to be persecution of dissent, which in Britain might include imprisoning people for non feminist speech.
What we need on such issues is to abandon these dogmas and seek for workable complimentary and wise ways to sort relations between groups. Which is impossible to do under the liberal paradigm.
And also prosecution for treason totalitarian progressive extremists in power (which includes powerful Non Govermant Organizations who play a role in this) imprisoning, or generally cancelling people for not sharing this dogma, and suppressing this faction in general, in favor of what I mentioned.
People trying to solve the problems that come from the general questions and from the feminist and general progressive supremacist paradigm specifically in both inter group relations, and in a specific society. Like birth rates, or dating rate, or whether the system works well for families, or whether it is unfair towards men and/or women.
Suffice to say people like Dread Jim represent the opposite extreme in my book. So I am not suggesting that female interests are treated as of no consideration. Just not prioritized above male interests and above common good, like what kind of societal arrangement leads to successful families and strong societies, nations, even stable international order and additionally, no reason to treat female interests and the way they are framed in the feminist perspective where careerism, abortion, are prioritized.
All this requires a break from liberal/progressive orthodoxy and even from those who claim to be in opposition of it, but actually are dogmatists for it. Authoritarianism, fanaticism, support of unreasonable and false aspects and unwillingness of compromise are the pervasive aspects of not a few kids of college, but of a broad liberal faction and of feminists in general.
B) What I call "Gullible Conformism". Women are more willing to unquestionably buy into unreasonable politics that are framed under the "I am a nice person" perspective. There is also the fact that women know less facts than men as shown in various studies.
To blame only women voters will neglect the influence of a network of activists who captured power in media, corporations, goverment, control powerful activist NGOs. We now have a female voter problem too, but historically the timing was more of these types of elites coordinating first and trying to influence women. Without them, the issue with women would had been lesser. And to be fair, women had played a role in this by taking part in the feminist movement.
But in the current situation it does exist. However with different ideology being promoted a decent % of women would distance themselves from feminism.
In regards to voting, I have entertained the idea of limiting the vote to people who pass a test that examines both their knowledge and capability to prioritize the common good. Obviously if implemented today in countries run by the far left, it would result in banning all non far leftists from voting. But in an ideal way, it would mean selecting people who understand key facts, and share some key important moral principles and demonstrate wisdom.
Which isn't apolitical but goes directly against cultural marxism/ modern far left, which is mainstream liberalism. For example there would be a question about whether "Do our people have a right to continue existing by restricting the right of foreigners to immigrate and settle on our lands, or we shouldn't have that right, because it should be considered racist and prioritised above it". Same in regards to feminism and affirmative action were the concept of excessive women rights should be put under consideration with the common good. Include some edgier questions that put in the recepient the threat of being thought as not being nice, or associating with extreme movement, but the correct position would be to do just that.
Another issue that goes beyond voting, is that a democratic regime as any textbook claims, should be about more things than majority decides. The far left conveniently either supports or tolerates far left extremism, and opposes people opposing it, but either opposes or tolerates opposing as unconstitutional the implementation of even reasonable politics which they consider to go against the red lines of the left, and associate with far right extremism.
People implementing the agenda is to disenfranchise, and treat as second class citizens or vilify, the groups progressive dislike, should be treated as people engaging in illegal and unconstitutional activity. And all organisations of this agenda should be banned. People who have done this, should be prosecuted for the crime of stripping groups from their rights, and in various cases for treason.
For example, if leftist ideologues in the police, goverment, start discriminating against the native people, you can and should imprison them. Or if they imprison people for not real crimes. There needs to be an overton window that closes and doesn't tolerate agendas that is sufficiently far to the left, including the cultural left.
Ideally, countries should not be run by oikophobes, who act as foreign occupation goverment in their mistreatment of their native people and their disallowance of existence as a community. Amd neither by extreme nationalists, not in the way the liberal/far left/"conservatives" who compromise with it define it, but those who are acting in a very parasitical and destructive manner to other nations. Same applies to other identity politics.
So the solution to this is to treat mainstream liberal ideology as an illegitimate extreme ideology, and try to promote something both more moderate, and therefore more conservative, and directly seek to solve social problems that will remain denied, treated as conspiracies, or treated as non problems, under the liberal dogma. Obviously if you aren't sufficiently conservative you can never be a moderate.
While simultaneously, pressuring groups like women to not be feminist, and stop putting women above men, in addition to promoting this ideology in the broader society. The ideology that progressive supremacy is an extreme destructive ideology, is the way forward to stop both the problems caused of it, but also the problem it cause of inter group conflict by stirring an entitled tribalist hateful attitute from pandered groups, and from people who become extreme tribalists for groups that aren't their own, and disrespectful of legitimate rights of other groups.
Of course, another problem of this ideology that we would benefit when it is suppressed, and it appears in this discussion by people indulging in this behavior, is the huge levels of bulverism and vilification and reality denial. People on the right can't have legitimate problems and oppose things, but must be nazis, incels, and all sort of boogie labels whose grievances are wholly illegitimate. This behavior, not only very dangerously leads to tyranny, and allows lies to foster, and has been key element to some of worst atrocities by far leftists in 20th century, but makes it impossible to rationally examine any issue.
Frankly, even among those ideological groups on the right which I have differences and find too extreme (referring to groups that are large enough to have some influence), who are fewer than those who claim to be on the right and compromise with far left, I very rarely if ever find any of them who have mostly illegitimate grievances against the left and leftist outgroups. It is just ridiculous propaganda. The typical type who I would say go to far, has legitimate complaints about legitimately bad behavior against the left and tribal groups associated with the left, but what they want as an end point, goes too far in a cruel and sectarian tribalist direction for my taste. That's it really. The leftist propaganda of insane far right extremist is it self promoting an insanity, and doing it often strategically maliciously so that the right can be losers, by treating their whole grievances as illegitimate.
The underlying message being that to prove you are not incel/nazi/far right be self destructive and betray your causes for the lefts. People who buy into this, will compromise with a subservient position for men and other demographics, and a subservient relationship, promising to be more subservient towards the far left.
So yeah, this type of perspective being absent from our discourse, would allow us to actually implement better gender relations that under the feminist paradigm and the bullying tactics of go along or you are a misogynist incel red piller man rights activst blah blah.
I think an important point of deradicalizing society, and I would expect with the right people in charge of the media the majority to pass the tests I entertained as an idea, would be for people to develop an active thick skin against these manipulation tactics. To become wise to this movement. Where they and the magic words no longer work anymore, and where people turn against those who will implement such tactics.
More options
Context Copy link