Bingbong
2mo ago
Honestly I feel like the calculus for Democrats is pretty good for drawing this out in the court of law. Keeps it in the media cycle longer and from the Rittenhouse thing the guy actually being cleared probably wouldn't actually change most people on the 'murder' side of the affair's opinions
Bingbong
2mo ago
But virtually no one seems to be actually continuing that thought and saying that he should be charged anyways. We have rules. ICE has rules. That's the point of having rules, to use them! If Good had survived and Ross died then I would be saying that Good should be charged too.
Yeah but he's clearly enough on the right side of the rules that nobody with any real power on the Democrat side of the aisle wants to force this to a court case since they'd lose embarrassingly.
Bingbong
2mo ago
The White elite is slowly losing its power, since the demographics are not in its favor. The way I see this is that by using authoritarian tactics, the elite tries to keep its power even when becoming an even bigger minority. Since the democratic system guarantees the loss of power.
Isn't this demographic pivot broadly due to the elite inviting large amounts of foreigners into the country in service of capital? It's not like some random pillaging horde of steppe people has come in without invitation.
Bingbong
2mo ago
He was moving around the car in a circle, taking video of the scene. Are you even interested at all in truth, did you read any of last week's discussion?? Did you watch the video?
I genuinely hate this argument since the whole point of the 'don't stand in front of the car' is to minimize risk to the operative not to somehow absolve people for trying to drive into them. I don't care if the entire ICE platoon was doing jumping jacks in front of her dashboard against policy, the second she starts driving into them she is clearly generating a threat.
Bingbong
2mo ago
You fundamentally don't understand this issue. The shooter had a reasonable belief in his life being in danger from her action. I agree that she was probably trying to just escape after mild civil disobedience and likely wasn't committing to actual attempted murder, but the legal legitimacy is purely down to whether the shooter felt he was at risk. You've additionally conflated the 'officers are taught never to approach a vehicle from the front' idiom with 'it's okay to drive hazardously if one happens to be in front of the vehicle'.
It's a sad incident, but a tactic of constantly throwing mild inconveniences at the bear is going to occasionally lead to somebody being sideswiped. In fact it's somewhat amazing that ICE has yet to throw a properly, truly against-the-rules murder up considering they're fairly underskilled and being treated with incredible levels of hostility for trying to action the mandate of the people.
Bingbong
2mo ago
I'm also an expat in Malaysia (which is notably less of an ethnostate than Japan and has its own vigorous fun Idpol stuff going on). There's a lot of illegal immigration here, and I'll probably get stopped at a roadblock every second month by happenstance for an immigration check. Generally it's a somewhat-amusing interaction since they're ostensibly looking for people from neighboring poorer Asian countries (Indonesia, Bangladesh, Myanmar etcetera) and I'm clearly not a member of one of Malaysia's main 'native' ethnicities so that the police feel it necessary to pull me over even if they're generally a lot more polite and circumspect with me than they would be with their actual targets.
I don't begrudge them their occasional checks. I do think the idea of Malaysian identity is quite messy, arguably moreso than even most Colonial Western nations, but I'm also not gonna start protesting the local police force for occasionally pulling me over. They're doing their jobs, Allah bless them.
Bingbong
2mo ago
Don't they also have staggeringly high rates of domestic abuse? Though it wouldn't shock me if that were just an artifact of women being more likely to report domestic abuse and thereby the two-women relationship being more likely to report it.
Bingbong
2mo ago
Also I've been to plenty of 95%-local ethnostates in the world where they're totally covered on all the latest global food trends. Tier 1s in China don't have a hell of a lot of foreigners but they've got a staggering array of European, Asian and American cuisines available for cheap and high quality. The whole 'but the food' argument is pretty absurd in the days of Youtube.
Bingbong
2mo ago
Should have really died instantly from the first clip where the wife was standing outside of the car filming it which isn't standard practice for a 3-point turn.
Bingbong
2mo ago
The leftist harassing ICE is stochastic hoping for a viral moment.
Exactly, especially considering one lapse in the rules of engagement for ICE can be blasted into the media forever (even this one probably was a legal shoot but had poor vibes) whilst anything that's palatable will fall off the radar immediately.
Bingbong
2mo ago
A similar thought experiment: Who would you rather babysit your kid for a week—a randomly selected ICE agent or a randomly selected Somali migrant?
Do I get to participate in the latter's subsidies?
Bingbong
2mo ago
The sort of autist that posts on the the Motte tends to actually hold to principles somewhat instead of broad tribe identification.
Bingbong
2mo ago
Yeah. If you do sufficient obstructionism it will inherently generate iffy media moments, and eventually one will slot into the right media environment and be questionable enough to potentially derail the whole project. Any good uses of violence by ICE will be immediately subsumed in the media but anything remotely controversial will be easy to keep magnifying and repeating.
Bingbong
2mo ago
I think there's two separate things when it comes to 'good shoot'. There's 'was the shot legal/complying with regulations' and 'were the optics of the shoot bad'. A lot of people on the Left aren't really trying to have the first conversation since they operate purely on optics lines instead of 'will this clear in the court of law', which is what is so galling about them being totally fine about Babbitt whilst they're acting like Good was flat-out murder
Bingbong
2mo ago
I think if 1/6 had been a left-wing riot, the response to this would be "breaking a window shouldn't be a death sentence!" and the left would memorialize the incident as "Ashli Babbitt - murdered by the government over a broken window," and would totally ignore every single other piece of important context around the incident. We are seeing this phenomenon happen right now with the ICE shooting in Minneapolis.
Yeah this is the point to me. I'm not arguing that Babbitt was an illegal shooting, but typically the way the leftwing litigates shootings is more vibe-based than giving a single shit about whether the shooting was legal in the current structure. The Good Shooting I believe a decent amount of people just focus on how bad the optics are and either aren't going to care or will have long moved on by the time that the police officer is absolved. The optics on Babbitt were bad enough (Unarmed woman posing zero threat getting gunned down on camera) that her Portland equivalent would be a gigantic national martyr.
Bingbong
2mo ago
Yeah 80% of the posts are fine but some feel like they're verging on straight up trolling.
Bingbong
2mo ago
As far as I'm aware her partner's angle on the actual escape attempt hasn't been released. One of the earlier clips was from somebody to the direct left of the partner who seemed to be 'legal observing' in the same way.
Bingbong
2mo ago
The driver’s wife is not passively observing but actively shouting at the agents (this should undermine the idea that the driver and her wife were somehow neutral people accidentally caught up in everything)
I feel like this particular line of argumentation was only held by the most deliberately unaware and misinformed on the issue. Like at the very least why was the wife walking around outside of the vehicle with her camera out if this was a completely random uninvolved set of people.
Bingbong
2mo ago
I think it wasn't a great shoot (especially for general optics), but also the officer was in a position where it's reasonable for him to say he perceived mortal danger (which was most likely contributed to by his earlier vehicular incident) which justifies the shot. But if people are going to make a policy of borderline-legal obstructionism of ICE at every turn that's inherently going to increase the surface area for incidents like this to occur
Bingbong
2mo ago
You can enforce immigration, you can own the libs, you cannot do both at once as effectively as focusing on one.
Doesn't the whole sanctuary city thing indicate that even if you're trying to enforce the most milquetoast sort of stuff in this arena a decent amount of the country will just say 'No fuck you' and jam up the gears deliberately? Especially considering the Sanctuary City movement started in the 1980s and is almost 50 years old so you can't even say it's responsive to Republicans or Trump.
I do also think the clumsy visibility of ICE is intentional for two reasons. Firstly, it means that the Republican base feels that 'something is being done' to a degree that it hasn't in recent history since a plethora of headlines are generated. Secondly, it does a lot to change the tone of immigration and IMO has probably been part of why fresh incursions are very low.
Bingbong
2mo ago
It's good police policy not to stand in front of cars but also clearly a crime to actually try to run them over. Same way that saying 'officers should seek cover in a firefight' doesn't equate to 'shooting an officer outside of cover should be less penalized since it's easier'
Bingbong
2mo ago
Right Wingers who aren't even under any clear criminal investigation frequently get debanked by Paypal and whatnot just off vibes. Meanwhile one can be an active obstructionist of the right tribe and essentially do whatever they like without pissing off the payment processing overlords.
Bingbong
2mo ago
Long story short
My dad was a military electrician driving around the Independent Southern part of a European country famous for its north-south religious divide, as a member of the military forces of their Eastern neighbor. Said Eastern Neighbor had somewhat-condoned listening posts inside the Southern country, and my dad was essentially maintaining those driving around in an unmarked van.
One night he stops in at one concealed in a rural barn and stays for the night, then wakes up at 2AM since he needs to go to the toilet. He leaves the barn and goes into the nearby woods to shit, and in the meantime a small group of locals come up on the guys inside the barn and have them at gunpoint. My dad sneaks back from the woods, grabs the nearest weapon (which was the hunting rifle of the commanding officer of the listening post and filled with hollow point rounds) and then opens fire on the locals after they open fire on the guys inside the barn. He ends up being the only survivor, and once the military police descended on the situation it turned into a huge clusterfuck.
My dad was accused of opening fire/shooting the locals in the back (despite the fact that they clearly fired on the guys inside the post since they're also dead), and of breaking the Geneva Convention due to using hollowpoint rounds (since he'd literally just grabbed the nearest weapon which wasn't his/loaded by him) plus there's a ton of ugly diplomacy around the location and status of this particular incident since it's not inside the country in which this particular police action was supposed to be taking place. He then spends a month or two getting grilled, before eventually being discharged on goodish terms and the court martial not sticking but there was an attempt.
Bingbong
3mo ago
Vast majority of military and police members are never gonna have a real livefire incident, and lots of weird edgecases happen.
My dad almost got Court Martialed for breaking ROE 50 years ago for reasons that were partially not his fault but also just kind of messy fog of war.
I don't know how long they've been together so this might predate the current moment in dating, but showing conservative politics/any sort of a job like policing on a dating app is incredibly poisonous to your rate of matching.
Also having personally gotten out of the Dating App Mines a few years ago with a WMAF pairing, simply holding the following standards
Meant that my dating menu was like 85% Asian in a country that's like 10% Asian on the top level. That's gonna encourage guys of his profile to end up with Asian women.
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