Evinceo
Resident Normie
No bio...
User ID: 224
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Neither the administration or users encouraged illegal acts.
Debatable. I would categorize the act of doxing someone as aiding and encouraging harassment or worse. KF knew what it was doing. Telling their readership not to use the information for illegal purposes might have been sure footing the first time, but they apparently didn't learn their lesson. Eventually if you keep doing a thing and it causes another thing to happen, regardless of your strenuous verbal discouragement you own those consequences. To Wit, if you rig up a bridge with explosives and leave a big old 'destroy bridge, do not press' button in public, people are gonna start blaming you for the exploded bridges after morons have knocked down the first few.
Doxxing is not illegal
In the US, no. On the internet... like I said, it's the closest thing to illegal. It makes you a pariah. An outlaw. I'd expect someone doing the equivalent in real life to be assaulted on a regular basis. They chased clout by doing the forbidden thing, had a pretty good run, produced some good and many not so good externalities and finally got run out of town on a rail.
How can you have faith that people will critically examine the evidence if themotte is accused when nobody bothered to do so for KF?
I don't think CF examined the specific accusation (which was an obvious op) but I think they got an overall sense of what KF was about and decided it wasn't the hill to die on.
KF's nuance behavior attracts hostile ops like the one that ultimately got them. Eventually one was going to succeed.
Consider also that for CF to explain why they dropped KF would require them to explain a decade or so of internet lore to an audience that didn't give a damn. Much easier to just point at a bomb threat and go 'there, you happy?'
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Covering the story around the story to avoid covering the story is the canonical way to bury scandals after all, as French politician Charles Pasqua would say: "when one is getting fucked by a scandal, one must induce a scandal-inside-the-scandal, and if necessary a scandal-inside-the-scandal-inside-the-scandal, until nobody understands anything anymore".
That's a good summary of the laptop story in general. Every time I try to figure out why we're supposed to care about the laptop, it's some amount of 'because look who suppressed the laptop story' and never 'because the following turned out to be on the laptop.'
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
In short: Ingroup>outgroup?
Alex Jones could have been Alex Jones and made up a different lie that didn't implicate random strangers as adversaries in some grand conspiracy. For example, he could have said that Adam Lanza was CIA.
the other thousand instances that happen every day get ignored or even celebrated
Many many cases go to court every day, so I'm not sure what you're saying here. Jones clowned in court, and if you do that, all bets are off.
I can certainly think of worse instances of abuse and harm than what Alex Jones did. Can't you?
I have difficulty imagining a more ghoulish use of a radio show than to slander the mourning parents of slain children.
Consider the way 9/11 truthers operated. Very few denied that people actually died. I suspect that someone saying 'Cops are liars, none of them died in 9/11, they're just trying to take away our right to brandish box cutters on airlines' they'd be in shit just as deep.
To put things in a different context, if public figures start talking about the inherent evil of a people, and then others start attacking those people in the street at random, do we punish the public figures or the people who committed the crime?
In my ideal world we'd discourage that type of thing, yes. I think that there's a difference between slandering, say 'all white people', 'all black people', 'cops' or 'politicians' and, say, a very specific small group of people ('sandy hook families') and a necessary increase in liability to go with it. If someone says 'Officer Jones is a killer' and someone shoots Officer Jones, it's probably different than if Activist Bob says 'All cops are killers' and someone shoots officer jones. Now, if Activist Bob is the most recognizable cop hater in the whole country, which brings me to:
It seems bizarre to blame Jones as if he was the one phoning these peoples homes, right?
We live in the age of untouchable useful idiots who can be used for plausible deniability. In days past, people were more direct, and law enforcement got good at nailing organized crime. So now we have this: distributed crime with no explicit orders and all relationships are parasocial.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
William Clinton was done in for a blowjob
If he hasn't gone on TV sitting next to his wife and lied about it to the American public he wouldn't have suffered for it as he did.
Nationwide riots errupted due to a drug using felon
... getting murdered slowly in front of a camera.
Seeing a pattern here?
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
he never directed his followers to do harassment
What's your threshold for 'directing followers to do harassment' though? If people are motivated by lies, is the liar responsible? Are people just supposed to hear stuff like 'x is a government psyop trying to take your freedom' and just be like 'ok?'
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Where is the red/grey team version of George Soros? Peter Thiel?
When Gawker outed Thiel he did a damn good job of deplatforming them. I do not think Thiel & Co have any interest in supporting KF. And KF has too much of a tendency to go after Autistic people for the Gray tribe to really feel comfortable with them.
Are there any options for a completely legal (in the United States) site like KF to stay online
While strictly speaking 'legal' they encouraged and enabled illegal acts. Also, again while not a matter of US law, doxing is the closest thing the anglophone internet has to a prohibition by law. Since TheMotte isn't... about that life, I doubt we have anything to worry about.
A version of KF that scrubbed information that could be used to track down the individuals would probably still be online. Also, private harassment and doxing IRC channels will continue to exist. KF was a unique combination of both, trading private information for internet clout. Devil's bargain and all that.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Not to be too cute, but isn't that the same energy as:
That is why I absolutely despise centrists coalitions: Because they will negotiate with the Left, receiving something inconsequential on the long run (like a lesser tax on something useless) and giving to the leftist part something that cement their coalition (immigration, genderification, more cultural egemony)
There's plenty of Catastrophizing outside of trans activist communities too. I see it most in gun threads.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
I liked Ancillary Justice. The premise is fun once you know what the author is doing. The ship can't properly identify as a human and understand gender distinctions for the same reason the empire folks (or whatever they were called) couldn't understand the native culture of the swamp planet enough to anticipate the brewing shitshow there. And why the ship didn't initially understand the plot. That disinterested misunderstanding was a big theme in the book.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
He appointed an unprecedented three SCOTUS judges in a single term
That's congress's doing, not Trump's. All he did was sit in the chair. Any old stooge could have done that, and for less!
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
I don’t understand fight antisemitism movement.
I hope your people never face the kind of existential threat that leads to generations of people getting this defensive.
Jews seem to be doing fine in this country.
I don't understand the antiwoke movement, whites seem to be doing fine. I don't understand the AI risk movement, humans seem to be doing fine. I don't understand anti-trans folks because the straights are doing fine, but I likewise don't understand the trans rights movement because Trans people are doing fine. 'Doing fine' isn't very specific.
The stuff he promoted is bad but just let a guy do his job.
Believe it or not, part of every job is 'don't make your employer look foolish.' If you're making big public stupids and part of your job is appearing on TV in front of reporters, you may be in trouble with your boss.
I strongly advise everyone here boycotts woke brands.
Nike, NBA, and Disney are dead brands to me.
Is this cancel culture?
Actually really like Star Wars and here there’s a good new series out but I can’t watch it.
Proof that cancel culture is more trouble than it's worth. The CEOs endorsed Trump but I still wear New Balance and eat Goya. And if I could afford one, I'd certainly consider owning a Tesla even if I think Musk is an idiot.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Most people don't enjoy human suffering. In order to profit from it at scale, you evolve a culture that frames your inhumanity to fellow men as something else. The slavery was gone, but the culture that had evolved to enable it persisted. Understand?
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
The water has been deliberately muddied by bad faith players who stand to make substantial profits so long as Ivermectin is suppressed.
You'll have to elaborate on this one. What?
extremely safe
If taken at a responsible dose, but you'll recall that most of the dunking on Ivermectin was when people were going out and taking megadoses and getting sick.
Why does the discussion around Ivermectin sound so much like the discussion around GameStop stock?
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
One guy obsessively following Musk around is a stalker. Elon having a meltdown about it... that's news.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
If he'd gone after 9/11 cops the way he went after Sandy Hook families he'd be dead by now. He chose his victims wisely.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
the inability of society to 'reign in' female sexuality in a healthy way contributes to almost every form of social dysfunction we observe.
Isn't it mostly men doing the rioting, heroin, shooting, looting... did I miss any?
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
I guess I also don't buy that avoiding a non-mandatory vaccination is in any way resisting the imposition of a police state.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Choose team liberty over team coercion.
Same, but please also make good decisions, not just decisions based on vibes.
Choose team economy over team lockdown.
What does that have to do with getting a shot?
I'm really not sure what you're saying here
I was hamhandedly drawing an equivalence, ie, a very expensive signal to show that you don't care about me and mine. Which is fine. I don't want to coerce you into caring about who you hurt. But it might affect my decision to invite you to parties, yeah?
Consider the pledge of allegiance-US school kids recite it every day. Compared to getting a yearly shot, this is an astounding amount of time, and a much clearer signal of conformity. I assume you're US-based, did you refuse that too?
And you never did mention if you got your flu shots.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
You don't think Small Business Owners and Homeowners is enough of a call out?
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
I think if you care about the direction of society something you simply have to risk mental unwellness and a certain myopic obsession with politics.
I disagree. Being a functioning human being has to come first. It's nobody's job to drive themselves insane with worry over something they have no control over.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
NYT probably made the wrong call on doxing Scott, however I think there's a significant difference between an org that makes an occasional mistake versus an org which practices something as a matter of course.
Or: just because NTY doxed one guy does not mean Kiwi's use of doxing knowing full well the level of IRL harassment it tends to invite on its targets is ok.
I suppose it's not just the doxing that makes KF distasteful, but the doxing is a line they could opt not to cross and they'd have a lot more friends.
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
Finally, I realized that my primary aversion to the hyper-woke was their poor arguments and dogmatic attitude. This aversion also explains my dislike of other political groups that express similar characteristics.
The realization that even if one side is right and one side is wrong, no side has a monopoly on bad takes or bad arguments.
I rarely see people on the right introspect about the right this way though, which I find fascinating. Maybe the lefty identity is so tied up with being intellectual or being correct that we can't abide a useful idiot, even if it means arguing against our own team, the old left wing circular firing squad...
Evinceo
Resident Normie
1yr ago
We regard car crimes as an acceptable cost for a lifestyle enabled by cars, so few people clamor to ban cars in the wake of car attacks. Guns are regarded by the left as chiefly a nuisance and not a critical tool that enables our way of life. Cars don't need a second amendment to protect them; the benefits are obvious.
It's big of you to admit that the source of your dead is that the idea of being in an other than majority white country freaks you out. Most white folks will tie themselves in pretzels to avoid saying it. Since there's really nothing an individual can do to change something like that, the advice is the same as it is for those made anxious by climate change: consider therapy. You need to be the best person you can in the world we have, not the one you wish you had.
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