FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
No bio...
User ID: 675
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
Shockingly enough, even the most powerful man in the world is not as powerful as numerous very powerful men and women working together to achieve their ends. But as noted elsewhere, this is not a problem we have to puzzle out from first principles; we can simply look at actual examples. Tell me, which of Trump's lies has been as damaging as Bush lying America into Iraq?
I think a literal palletload of MREs dropped out of a C130 has a pretty high chance of being an accidental kinetic weapon. Probably possible to do a bit better though.
I was thinking more hot-glue two packs to a stick and see if you can get them to airfoil like a maple-seed, or even just dump the packs out loose from, say, 200 feet up. I've never seen one of these packs, I'm going off handling MRE packs before, which were relatively light and packaged in very tough plastic.
My assumption is that Israel is absolutely trying to put food pressure on Gaza; I think there was a link in the international thread that 10% of the gazan population is now dead, and I would expect that number to increase significantly before this is over.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
yeah, I see the skepticism over cost as a challenge. 4.70 per ratpack x 2 ratpacks x 2,050,000 inhabitants = $18.8 million, so obviously the large majority of the cost estimate here is delivery. I'm pretty sure cargo planes have <10x the capacity of a helicopter with significantly lower costs per flight hour.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
You might be able to cut those costs by 3x in a reasonable way, I'm doubtful that you could drop them by 10x.
What's your estimate on flight costs for helicopter versus C-130? Because I bet you could figure out a way to drop those things out the back of a cargo aircraft by the palletload and have 90%+ reach the ground intact; from eating MREs a few times, I don't remember them being very heavy for their volume, and the packaging is durable...
Maybe ditch the Humanitarian rations and just start dropping sacks of dry beans and rice with cut-rate parachutes? Like, really optimize for usable calories on the ground for the cheapest price possible, where harm to the payload is a minimal concern.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
That is a fantastic idea, and I would strongly endorse it. how much would this cost? It can't possibly be more than we waste on any number of military or social programs of far more dubious effectiveness.
The standards should be much higher for state-led censorship efforts though.
"Should be" is not "is", much less "has been". The government has repeatedly and systematically censored the internet, over which they have no remit, to keep people from pointing out they were lying about crucial policy facts. It is not even clear that the government is what got Kimmel censored here, although if it was that seems entirely acceptable given their statutory power to preserve the common interest through broadcast licensing. Lying about a highly-charged political assassination in order to blame the victims is not in the public interest.
You are of course free to disagree and make your case here.
My objection to the claim "The lies Trump tells are dangerous in a way that should be prioritized" is that I have a long list of lies that seem obviously to be much, much more dangerous than any lie Trump has told, which have caused staggeringly vast amounts of harm and which no one other than MAGA appears willing to address. Entire wars, nation-wide, sustained violations of basic human rights, mass murder committed by government agents, serious crimes committed or enabled for political objectives are a few examples of these harms. I have waited decades to see these lies addressed in any meaningful way, only to be disappointed at every turn. These harms have, in my view, destroyed our previous political system and replaced it with rule by the irresponsible and unaccountable, which has already leaned hard into outright tyranny and is rapidly decaying into ungovernable chaos. Look at the reaction to Kirk's assassination, and imagine what it would have been like if the Butler bullet had been even a single inch to the right.
When Trump makes a statement, I assume that his word on its own means nothing, and I have every confidence that we can hash out the truth. When Biden or Obama or Bush or Clinton made statements, these were treated as truth regardless of contrary evidence and in many cases those questioning them were suppressed. And in fact, these arguments have succeeded in exactly the way I expected, by dragging previously-covered misdeeds into the light via the Streisand Effect. Concern about Epstein's connections was fringe, and now it is mainstream. Concern about unrestrained immigration were fringe, now they are mainstream. Arguments about politicization of the justice department and our security agencies was fringe, now it is mainstream.
Trump's lies have not led me into a position that appears, in hindsight, to be a position I don't want to be in. That is not something I can say for his predecessors or indeed for most of his current opponents.
A: "It was just a joke! these guys can't take a joke!"
B: "Actually, it doesn't appear to have been a joke. That's not how jokes work."
A: "Look at these losers, arguing about jokes!"
Blues are actively attempting to deny responsibility for a political assassination, for which the perpetrator and his motives are exceedingly clear. Kimmel joined in to repeat a blatant lie about the shooter's identity and allegiances on national television. From further reporting, he refused to apologize, claiming he had said nothing wrong. I am fine with him losing his job over that. Many people have lost their jobs for much less. I am happy for Blues to complain about this; it will further highlight their hypocrisy and Streisand-Effect the facts of the case that they appear desperate to deny or bury.
I think this is wrong too. The "Reds want killings" conclusion at any rate. Reds accept killings as a trade-off, because they care about other things more
...And yet, we are willing to take other actions, even costly ones, certainly effective ones, to deter people from becoming spree killers, and to stop spree killers from achieving their objectives. We are not willing to handle the problem the way Blues want it handled, but we are in fact willing to handle the problem.
I repeat: You tell me what Blues were willing to do, not say, but do, to stop the riots. Tell me what the analogous action to shooting would-be spree killers dead is for Blue Tribe with regard to riots.
Uniformed gangs on men with rifles took over a chunk of a city, declared it a no-go zone for the police, and began threatening and shooting at people. Blue Tribe not only stood back and let them do this for over a month, but when they actually murdered someone, they allowed them to retreat anonymously, made no effort to apprehend or even identify them, and did their best to memory-hole the whole incident. They did this collectively, as a tribe, systematically disabling all of our society's safety rails and lockouts in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening or punishing it when it happens anyway or even retaining memory that it had happened. I have no reason to believe they will not do it again.
Nor is this some principled stand. They did not mind aggressively prosecuting Rittenhouse or Baca or the boomer couple who didn't even fire a shot or any of the other reds who attempted to defend themselves, all the way back to Based Stick Man. No blue objected to Babbit, an unarmed woman, being shot dead on Jan 6th; suddenly rioting was very, very dangerous, actually. Antifa in Portland continue to routinely assault peaceful Reds, and the police continue to turn a blind eye. This is not a one-shot process, we have a decade's worth of data-points at minimum, and they all go the same way: our speech is violence, blue violence is speech.
If Blues "didn't want it to happen", but actively denied it was happening, attacked anyone that claimed it was happening regardless of their evidence, actively supported the people making it happen and refused to punish them, refused to take any action to stop it from happening, refused to allow anyone else to take any action to stop it from happening and fiercely attacked them if they tried anyway, and finally broadly celebrated it happening... The honest truth is that they wanted it to happen, but didn't want to accept responsibility for it happening.
Blues make accusations against Reds like this all the time, re: spree killings. We're unwilling to do what's needed to stop the killings, ie banning guns, so we want killings, or at minimum bear full responsibility for them. But we are willing to do lots of things to stop killings, from fortifying targets to literally shooting the would-be killers dead.
You tell me what Blues were willing to do, not say, but do, to stop the riots.
And the fact that we are still playing language games over this issue shows that nothing has changed, and no lessons have been learned. I cannot trust Blue Tribe to provide me equal protection under the law, because they have generated common knowledge that they absolutely will not do so. I understand that most Blues are unwilling to admit this, but the facts speak for themselves. Your arguments don't seem to dispute this fact in any substantive fashion, only to explain why they think it's a good thing. But I already know why they think it's a good thing: they believed, and many of them apparently still believe, that police kill two or three orders of magnitude more unarmed black people than they actually do, that ACAB, that we should abolish police and prisons, and that crime is either imaginary or caused entirely by insufficient leftist policy or not actually that big a deal or that the victims deserve it, as is maximally convenient for them in any given situation.
I am not willing to have my tribe reduced to second-class-citizen status, and I am not willing to allow Blues to use lawless political violence to suppress my views and political activity. If that is Blue Tribe's best offer, as it in fact seems to be, I and many Reds like me prefer war.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
You can frame it that way if you wish. The problem is that it doesn't seem like many people in the wider culture are buying it. The ultimate test for any of the claims or perspectives we offer here are subsequent events: I am confident that framing this as "Kirk unleashed the inner That's Not Funny" is not going to turn the tide.
Time will tell.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
I am not a moderator.
He may be referring to the volunteer comment-rating system that offers normal commenters to give their opinion on comments selected by automatic metrics.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
It seems as though this comment would be on-point if randomly placed anywhere in the last two threads.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
When the shooter said that Kirk needed to be killed because of Kirk's "hate", what do you think he meant by that?
They were making the case of tolerating so much more back in the late 2010s.
I think using a major media platform to blame the right for a murder of a rightist committed by a leftist, after the left has spent years publicly encouraging leftists to kill rightists, while leftists are actively working to deceive people into believing that this murder was committed by a rightist, should not be tolerated. You say that people like me have tolerated worse before. Can you give some specific examples? I'm not that picky about the definition of "like me", if that helps.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
On the federal level, the one in charge at the time was a guy called Trump.
Whether Trump was meaningfully in charge of the executive branch during his first term is an open question, given the number of his theoretical subbordinates who have openly bragged about disobeying his orders, coordinating action with his opponents, and lying to him about it since.
I am not sure why he did not mobilize the national guard at that time, would have made a lot more sense IMO than mobilizing them now to help with ICE efforts in cities which voted against him. Of course the Dems would have tried to stop that, just to make him look bad.
My assessment, both at the time and with hindsight, is that Trump understood that cracking down on the rioters would be politically-advantageous to the rioters and their leadership. Deploying the national guard now appears to me to be a pre-emption against riots starting in Blue cities, preventing them from forking him in this way again.
On a local and state level, I think most Democrat officials were walking a fine line. Making Trump look bad was great. Making themselves look bad because their town got looted was bad, but making themselves look bad because the cops shot another black guy would also have been bad. In the end, some decided that letting people riot and murder each other was preferable to their town making national news because a cop shot a black person.
I am not willing to accept them walking such a line. Blue Tribe was operating off an understanding of police violence generated by deliberate, coordinated lies by their own knowledge-production cadre. They believed those lies because the lies flattered their bigotries, and they acted on them to compromise rule of law on a very large scale and in immediately threatening ways to anyone who isn't one of them. They did this in a way that, as incidental side effects, killed many thousands of Americans and destroyed their ability to meaningfully cooperate on basic law enforcement for the indefinite future. The fact that they had sufficient intra-tribal message control at the time to make all this plausibly deniable within the tribe doesn't change the picture from across the tribal divide. Reds were not fooled, and coordinated their own common knowledge accordingly.
No, Blue Tribe wanted there to be protests. Most people fell on a spectrum going from "sincerely believes that the reports of widespread violence are Republican lies" to "grants that some protests devolved into riots, but thinks it's more important for protests to remain untouchable than to stop the riotous excesses".
The spectrum very clearly continued on to "riots are good, actually" for a large plurality of Blue Tribe, and this was not an anomaly that started with Floyd's death. Consider the phrase "No Justice, No Peace", and where and how it has been used in American politics. Further, this was not a preference for riots in general, but specifically for their own riots.
In any case, you are correct that there is a spectrum. This spectrum is best encapsulated by the phrase "Blue Tribe collectively wanted them to do it". The evident sum of their desires was protracted rioting with as much of the cost as possible offloaded to their outgroup and as few consequences for their ingroup committing the violence as possible, and they were willing to break or ignore most laws to make it happen and to punish anyone who interfered. They demanded that their tribe be above the law in a way that directly threatened pretty much every member of the other tribe. They demonstrated that they were willing and able to enforce this preference in the long-term, regardless of the consequences. That is not a preference that allows for peaceful and prosperous coexistence, as I pointed out at some length at the time.
And they did all this based on a tribally-coordinated lie, and that lie killed thousands of additional black people and thousands of additional white people over the next few years.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
Has this ever ‘not’ been a thing though?
It was not a thing I perceived when I was an Obama voter in 2008.
I stand by my description.
Masked and uniformed men with rifles took over several blocks of a major American city, and began threatening and shooting at anyone that displeased them. The police let them do it. Local officials described it as a street festival. After their several attempted murders escallated to an actual murder, the police allowed them to flee unmolested, making no apparent effort to detain or even identify those involved.
I think that fits the description "let them do it".
Hundreds of easily-predictable and highly destructive riots were allowed to proceed without police intervention, or with the police only moving in to close things down after the rioters had their fun. Rioters were allowed to burn a police precinct. Rioters were allowed to besiege a federal courthouse. Rioters rampaging through suburbs were at one point confronted by a homeowner armed with a shotgun; the police arrested the homeowner. Numerous cases of legitimate armed self-defense on the part of citizens were maliciously prosecuted by the authorities, resulting in long prison terms and at least one death by suicide. Numerous cases of highly-illegal and entirely unjustified "self-defense" on the part of the rioters were quietly cleaned up with minimal or no charges.
In the overwhelming majority of these cases, nothing has ever been done to address or rectify the problem.
Nor was this limited to the Floyd riots. Police stand-downs have been commonplace and easily observable at least as far back as the battle of Berkeley, the better to allow Leftist thugs to brutalize those who dissent. My understanding is that this is still happening in Blue strongholds; the thugs wear masks and work in teams, the police decline to intervene, and then shrug at the victims who have no actual culprit to point to. Locals approve, because to them, the thugs are the "good guys".
Here, have some video from a while back, via these guys. Clearly it is only due to their mastery of the criminal arts that these people manage to evade apprehension.
To the extent that police did let them do it, not all of that can even be blamed on politics. Police often tend to be quite risk-averse when dealing with large crowds, both to protect themselves and to protect the crowds. They often follow careful procedures rather than just rushing in and meleeing with rioters as soon as they notice that violence or property damage is happening.
When you have had riots the two previous nights, and you know there is going to be another riot tonight, and you accept this as a fact of the universe to be managed and worked around rather than attempting to prevent the riot before it starts, that is what letting it happen looks like.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
You have me blocked, but if any agree with you and would like to have a go at it, by all means speak up. This is a place for arguments, not faux-wearied retreats into implied implications.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
And the police let them do it, because their local, state and federal government wanted them to do it, because Blue Tribe collectively wanted them to do it. You are failing to appreciate the nature of the problem; it is not that we have riots and murders, it is that we have half the country that sees riots and murders against people they don't like as a good thing, and they don't like the other half of the country.
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
The tweet was discussed last week, and it turns out Destiny in fact has made some efforts to do this the other way. Given his recent comments, I'm skeptical he'll be making a habit of it in the future, though.
many MAGA-types were indeed desperately trying to portray the murderer as having anti-MAGA, pro-trans politics.
"Confidently and furiously" != "desperately". We assessed that the overwhelming likelihood was that this was a leftist with a strong likelihood of a side of anti-Christian bigotry, and we were correct. This was not a hard guess to make; I would estimate the likelihood as north of 90% simply based on the target, venue, and nature of the attack, and upwards of 98% once we had initial reporting of the messages scratched on the cases. The claims that the shooter was a Groyper or "one of his supporters firing a gun in the air in celebration" were the desperate ones, even more desperate because they were doing so amid an inescapable wave of leftist and notably LGB/Trans celebration of the murder. We knew that subsequent revelations would turn our opponents' position into a rhetorical kill-zone, and so we engaged with enthusiasm.
Just because they were likely correct doesn't mean this couldn't be an interesting observation about the need to tribalize; us-versus-them; one of you did a bad thing.
This statement demonstrates either complete lack of knowledge, or appalling dishonesty. I'm honestly not sure what the proper response should be. I could list off numerous previous incidents, both where Blues leaped immediately to tribalizing, us-versus-them, one-of-you-did-a-bad-thing even when the supposed wrongdoing was a hoax, and where Blues leaped immediately to how-dare-you-politicize-this even when the actions very clearly came from their side and when the harm was extremely serious. And this is how it works: When Blues are at fault, we all need to come together and rise above this petty tribalism. When Reds or even pseudo-reds are accused, then our irrational hatred and bigotry is threatening the foundations of our democracy. If any disagree that this is a well-established pattern at this point, by all means say so, and we can tally up examples and see what sum we arrive at.
In any case, I decline to play your shell game. I know my side will be blamed for anything that can even remotely be attributed to us, and for even more that is simply made up. Given this obvious fact, I hold that we should tally the cases as they come.
Kimmel wasn't making this criticism and was instead implying likely false things of the shooter, but I don't think the FCC should be pressuring Disney here.
Why not? I have heard for a decade how dangerous misinformation is, and how necessary it is to crush such misinformation with the full might of the federal government. Numerous previous examples are ready at hand. Grassroots blues have been actively spreading misinformation on this event. Kimmel used his platform to spread that misinformation much, much further. By torching his career, we also place a large spotlight on the fact that he and his allies were lying, and we put significant pressure on a hostile institution.
Kirk was murdered because of a dedicated, well-financed hate campaign that Blue Tribe has been running nationwide for decades now. Why should people like me cooperate or deal gently with that campaign in any way?
FCfromSSC
Nuclear levels of sour
6mo ago
Communist Terrorists, actually.
Consider the term "homophobe", intentionally chosen to frame opposition to LGBT as mental illness. Consider the sheer amount of propaganda in media and film, where anyone opposed was a violent, low-class, slovenly bigot, probably a criminal, or perhaps at best an ignorant, withered old church lady. This went on for more than a decade, and grew so hackneyed that it spawned a second-order meme of "not that there's anything wrong with that", to encapsulate the pervasive moral obligation that permeated culture. The Westborough Baptist Church was framed as the modal opponent of Gay Rights in the culture. A murder over drug money was framed as a hate-killing and blown up into national news, followed by new federal laws to combat the danger of hate crimes against homosexuals.
And as @gattsuru often notes, it worked. You won. Those you did not persuade, you shamed and abused and harassed into silence. "Protected Class" law formalized this for employment, the media and the Academy handled it everywhere else. As several Blue Commenters have straightforwardly stated it over the years, we lost, so it's our turn in the closet for a couple decades.
How fortunate that this sort of political hardball had zero negative consequences of any kind.
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