MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
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User ID: 896
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1hr ago
My point is that it is the constant murders of white people by ethnic minorities that is radicalising whites against ethnic minorities, not the Twitter algorithm.
The safest countries have about one murder per year per 100,000 people. At least a quarter of those will be outrageous enough to make good social media copy. So a group of 5,000,000 people will commit one potentially viral murder per month, if they are as peaceful as the Swiss. And one a week if they are only as peaceful as white Americans or black Britons (both around 4 murders per 100k). Since there are more than 5,000,000 nonwhite people in the UK (and an order of magnitude more than that if you are looking at immigrant crime globally, as most of the Americans poasting about the situation in the UK are), your Twitter feed being full of murders of white people by ethnic minorities could just as easily be caused by the algorithm as by actual crime. If Elon Musk wanted your Twitter feed to be full of white-on-white murders, he could make it so. And if he wanted it to be full of cute cat pictures, he could make that so.
How much do you know or care about white-on-white crime in Belfast? It's a complex issue given the history of the Troubles and the number of ex-paramilitaries hanging around. And yet you feel the need to have an opinion about crime by asylum seekers in Belfast.
There is enough crime in Zurich to fill a tabloid or a social media feed with crime stories. To know whether the constant stream of crime being shoved in your face by people who don't have your own interests at heart (at best they want you to keep staring at the ads between the criminal fnords, and in the case of Twitter coverage of migrant crime in the UK, we know that these posts are being amplified by a foreign billionaire who has made no secret of his desire to foment political violence in the UK and drive the British government out of office) is caused by the people doing the crime or the people doing the shoving, you need to look at statistics. So let's do that.
Murder has dropped since mass immigration started in the UK and continues to fall slowly. Ditto stabbings*. Ditto violent crime where the victim ends up in A&E. Ditto violent crime measured by victim surveys. Ditto property crime measured by victim surveys. There is some evidence that property crimes which mostly target tourists and therefore wouldn't appear in a victim survey have increased, including phone snatching and pickpocketing. Shoplifting (which also doesn't appear in victim surveys because the victims are businesses and not individuals) has definitely increased. Sexual offences by ethnic Pakistanis in the UK were out of control 20 years ago, and these cold cases are being regularly relitigated on social media in a way which suggests to people not paying attention that the crimes are still going on. (I genuinely don't know if they are or not, and the people outrage-poasting about them aren't bothering to check either). Cyber fraud is also rising, but it isn't what right populist agitators or tabloid journalists are talking about when they say that "crime is out of control".
Right now the UK right-populist discourse is dominated by two murders that went viral on social media. One was a case of "two hotheads get into a fight at pub closing time, unfortunately someone is dead because someone else brought a knife to a fistfight". The murder of Henry Nowak is only newsworthy because of the shockingly poor (and probably racially motivated) police response - and yet the social media peanut gallery are calling for penal laws against a demographic who commit less crime than the white British. Nobody has run the numbers, but given the reputation of Sikhs in the UK** it is likely that kirpans prevent more crime than they cause (much like guns carried by CCW permit holders in the US). The other case is a real failure of the UK immigration system - the Belfast attacker was a Sudanese falsely claiming to be a Somali who crossed the open ROI-NI border in order to claim asylum in the UK instead of the EU. But you wouldn't have learned about the difference from social media posts by right-populists.
* Police recorded knife crime is up (but peaked in 2024 and is now falling again), but actual stabbings are down, as measured by NHS administrative data. The most likely reason is that the police have been told to be more careful about checking whether a knife was used in muggings and suchlike where violence is threatened but nobody gets stabbed.
** Singh is the second-most common surname of VC winners, after Smith.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2hr ago
I think I've seen Americans talking about "stepping on a lego in the night"
But if you are right, "Legos" as a plural-formed mass noun is a weird usage. There are other examples ("clothes" is the most obvious, some people use "cattle" in this way) but they are rare.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
21hr ago
If he is a sufficiently atypical example that his views are not representative even when he thinks they are, that would be stolen valour (which while scurvy, is not moddable) rather than consensus-building.
I take @hydroacetylene's "we" seriously in the absence of evidence that he is not what he claims to be, and I would hope that my "we" is taken similarly seriously when I claim to speak on behalf of British liberals (in the British sense - the word has subtly different meanings in BrE and AmE). Given the unreliability of the MSM, the only ways the Motte gets to benefit from the perspectives of people who are not MAGA-supporting disgruntled grey tribers is to listen to the ones it has.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
"A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!"
That isn't a nice thing to say about Camilla Parker-Bowles.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
As far as I'm aware marriage for love was quite rare in the era before the suffrage.
In cisHajnal societies, middle-class and below young men and women chose their own partners, and presumably took sexual attraction into account when choosing. The date this pattern arises is not clear, but definitely before 1400. Dating pools were much smaller and there was more pressure to settle, but it was closer to the modern system immediately before dating apps than it was to parentally-arranged marriage.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
And they are possibly being outbred by low-IQ women
While the end-Baby-Boom-to-1990s fertility decline was dysgenic, the post-2010 decline in coupling and fertility is eugenic, in that the lower classes are being hit harder than the middle class and above. It is only dysgenic relative to the parts of sub-Saharan Africa where people still use flip phones.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
Consensus building.
Not really. "We" here is a reference to the kind of blue-collar worker @Goodguy was talking about (i.e. someone who puts a lot of their identity into being the kind of person who works hard in a physically demanding job), a demographic which is underrepresented here. If @hydroacetylene's "we" is accurate and he is indeed a regular blue-collar guy, he is providing the Motte with useful information we wouldn't otherwise have access to.
Whenever we say "this thing is sacred, it shall not be traded for profane goods"
People who actually think sex has a sacred element don't just think it should not be traded for profane goods - they think it should not happen outside marriage at all (de jure) or with a narrow exception for relationships where the parties are ready, willing and able to be shotgun married (de facto).
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
Interestingly, standard British usage is that "Lego" is a mass noun (like "water") - it is always used in the grammatical singular with non-counting quantifiers like "some Lego" or "$1000 worth of Lego" or no quantifier as in "models built of Lego". We would never say "Legos" and a single brick would be a "piece of Lego" or a "Lego brick". Whereas standard US usage is as a countable noun (like "coin") with each brick being an individual Lego.
Lego Corp want Lego to be an adjective because that makes it easier to protect their trademark. Like Rollerblade wanting their inline skates to be called "Rollerblade skates" and not "Rollerblades", and with about as much chance of success.
I have no idea why BrE and AmE diverge on this point, particularly as neither is following the Lego Corp position.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
Herodias' daughter got the head of John the Baptist, which by most accounts is worth rather more than half the kingdom. (Note that this isn't Herod the Great, it's his younger son Herod Antipas who ruled a postage-stamp size kingdom in Galilee as a client of the Roman Empire).
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
Cross-checking your link against this one on euthanasia more generally and a quick google of individual churches suggests that the ELCA does oppose euthanasia, but not the removal of feeding tubes. Essentially all the major Protestant denominations support withdrawal of medical treatment in this type of case, but most make a distinction between medical treatment (which can be withdrawn) and food and water*(which should never be), or weasel out of taking a side on food. The SBC, for example is explicit that food is not medical treatment and should never be withdrawn, and the local SBC congregation excommunicated the judge in the Schiavo case.
Interestingly, even pozzed denominations like the Episcopalians still oppose euthanasia.
* A major part of the case against the Liverpool Care Pathway was that it was euthanasia by dehydration
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
If nobody wants it, it won't happen.
I'm not sure why randos are telling opinion pollsters that they expect a civil war in the next 10 years, but "they have carefully thought about the issue and made a considered judgement call, such that the wisdom of crowds applies" is not a credible answer.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
1d ago
In the UK, the number of people who want the culture war to go hot is indistinguishable from zero. In America day-of-the-rope poasters exist, and Musk amplifies their social media posts so they look more visible than they are, but my impression is that the actual numbers are Lizardmen-tier - and I am not even sure if they actually mean it rather than shitposting.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
but that abortion for a life long disability is much more relatable
Most sane people think this. The thread is overindexing on social media disability activists, most of whom are mentally ill themselves.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
Choosing not to actively prolong someone else's life is different than choosing to intentionally end a life. Your hypothetical situation here would not be murder.
Although euthanasia opponents consider something like the Liverpool Care Pathway to constitute euthanasia. So they draw the distinction between "actively prolong" and "intentionally end a life" somewhere other than where most medics would draw it. In particular, Christian euthanasia opponents consider withdrawing artificial feeding and hydration from a patient who can't eat and drink for themselves to be murder rather than "choosing not to actively prolong" - hence the Terri Schiavo case and numerous other less famous cases.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
"Sophia" wasn't seeking MAID because she was homeless - it isn't even clear that she was homeless at the point she started the process. She was seeking MAID because she had a squirrelly illness which she (almost certainly wrongly) believed was caused by sensitivities to large numbers of common household chemicals, and the authorities refused to give her a chemical-free home.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
Christians adopted their views about children when infant mortality was still around 50%.
The idea that "save every child" is something that might actually be achieved, rather than an expression of heroic virtue in the face of impossible odds, is something you start to see in the 19th century.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
People should be able to abort for any reason except sex selection is a pretty standard lefty viewpoint.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
although TradCaths should supposedly be quite down for criticizing the pope for being too ${CurrentYear}
TradCaths are willing to criticise the Pope for deviating from Catholicism. They aren't willing to criticise the Pope for deviating from secular conservatism. The idea that the Christian thing to do can be determined by considering secular conservative political theory is pretty much exclusive to American evangelicals.
Christianity is a universalising religion. You are going to struggle to get a Christian to endorse "Now the Good Samaritan has come to the attention of the authorities, time to deport him back to Samaria, ideally after a few weeks in a deliberately squalid prison camp to deter imitators" or "Actually it would have saved the Roman Empire a lot of trouble if the authorities in Roman Egypt had shipped the Holy Family back to King Herod" - even though the latter is probably correct. You can find Biblical prooftexts for "Rulers should do the politically prudent thing, not the WWJD thing" to go along with the usual secular arguments that immigration restriction is prudent. But immigration restriction isn't Christian doctrine. My understanding of modern Catholic teaching is that the only secular political questions which are a matter of doctrine are right-to-life issues.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
If we're edgelording, I prefer "Mong". It's the term that was used in British school playgrounds when I was in school, though as with all such terms more for people who acted like they had Downs than for people who actually did.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
Downs is a trisomy, not a mutation, so there are no healthy carriers in the sense that there are for e.g. haemophilia or cystic fibrosis.
(There are genes which somewhat increase the odds of a Downs baby, but the effect is small compared to maternal age).
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
The first historical pagan reference to Christianity is from ~112 CE by Pliny the Younger, governor of northern Turkey, asking the Emperor his advice on dealing with recalcitrant Christians.
Technically true because Josephus doesn't call it Christianity, but Josephus writes about Jesus in around 93AD, saying that he was hailed as the Messiah and that he was executed by Pilate. This implies the existence of a group of people doing the hailing - i.e. Christians.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
common understanding of Jesus's message
It's not just a common understanding if Jesus' message, it's an obviously correct one.
The historical Jesus was, whether he was God the Son or not, an apocalyptic preacher who at the least didn't correct his followers' belief that the Second Coming and Last Judgement would happen during their lifetimes. Jesus' teaching on politically-sensitive topics is a combination of heroic personal virtue on one hand and political quietism/obedience to secular authority on the other - he is teaching in a context where the Roman Empire is what it is and rebelling against it is obviously stupid (which did not prevent the Jews rebelling, or suffering the consequences). And with that background, "regardless of what ICE is or is not doing, you, personally, should show love for the illegal immigrants as a display of self-sacrificing personal piety" makes perfect sense.
The Gospel simply isn't trying to be a source of secular wisdom for princes (or democratic citizens) - hence the consistent attempts by Christian political theorists to find Christian political wisdom in the Old Testament and needing a way round the fact that Solomon definitely was not Christian and was subject to ritual laws that we are not because they have been fulfilled in Christ. But most Christian political movements get their secular politics from secular sources.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarassed liberal elite
2d ago
Eugenics is broadly popular unless:
- You call it eugenics or
- It involves State coercion to remove people from the gene pool
Think about attitudes to choice of donor gametes in the IVF industry.
The largest immigrant minority in Britain before the Empire Windrush docked in 1948 was the Irish. (They were legally British, but so were the Jamaicans on the Windrush - people who are inclined to racism didn't see either group as remotely British). Moral panics about Irish wickedness were an ongoing feature of 19th and early 20th century British politics. There is also the notorious indigenous minority with their own unique kind of sexual deviance, the Welsh. Anti-Welsh racism has also been an on-and-off feature of British politics, and there was at one point in the 19th century a semi-serious moral panic among a certain type of conservative Anglican about the spread of Welsh-influenced Nonconformism* in England.
The British are less prone to ethnic hatred than most countries, but we are not immune to it. It is just that the ur-racism in England was never about skin colour, and this confuses Americans and lefties raised in the American tradition of anti-racism.
* Nonconformism is a general term historically used in British religious politics for and form of Protestantism that is not Anglican or Scottish Presbyterian (both of which are official state religions in different parts of the UK).
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