Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
"...Perhaps laughter will then have formed an alliance with wisdom; perhaps only 'gay science' will remain."
User ID: 342
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
27d ago
This is, to be blunt, a character flaw
Not only is it not a flaw, it's a virtue! The fundamental axiom of all value is that it is destroyed by abundance. Ensuring that this knowledge is able to take root and flower in every mind that provides suitable soil for it is of vital importance.
No one, despite the great amount of effort exerted, ever got so much as a footnote in a history book for being born, having children, feeling great love or anger or jealousy, spinning out an entire hidden inner universe with the utmost uniqueness and specificity, being ground into ashes by implacable anxiety, or dying - experiences that are if not common to all lives then at least common to a great many of them. We do, however, give great honors to star NFL quarterbacks, and rightly so. Not many people can throw a ball like that.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
27d ago
We aren't talking about economic value here. We're talking about the virtue of overcoming challenges
I know.
I mean, presumably the fundamental reason you don't feel like allying with the right is because you're center-left. If you were center-right instead, you'd probably feel more comfortable with the right!
I don't think there's much point in speculating what a rightist censorship regime would look like right now, because the right doesn't have the power to enforce those policies on a national scale and I don't realistically see that changing any time soon. So I'm fine with just trying to push back against leftist censorship for now, and if rightist censorship ever gets out of hand we can cross that bridge when we come to it. (Of course, part of the reason why I'm comfortable saying that is because I'm apt to find the right's policies more hospitable in the first place - someone of a more leftist bent might say that current leftist censorship is really no big deal after all, but rightist censorship is a lurking omnipresent danger that we must be on constant guard against).
For what it's worth I think I'm about as close to a free speech absolutist as you can get. I don't think anyone should be punished for supporting Palestine, or questioning trans ideology, or anything else. But if I have to make a choice, I'll go with the side that is less censorious on the issues that are closer to me personally.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
26d ago
that governments may make figleaf declarations about opposing these types of slander but will never actually enforce them because they actually are inherently conservative entities that are on the side of the privileged and the default, that anyone can make the most vile comments they want and always could without fearing legal reprisals
It heavily depends on the government and the type of speech in question. Holocaust denial is currently illegal in multiple Western countries and has been successfully prosecuted.
The Peterson/'free speech absolutist' wing points at 'cancel culture' and the specter of government censorship as a general bludgeon against the left, but they're actually committed to a much more broad model of conservatism and just using that to stir up their base.
So, I think this is a common cognitive bias to fall victim to. When you encounter someone who has views that are dramatically different from your own, you don't have an internal mental model of what it would feel like to actually hold those views with sincere conviction. So you assume that they don't. It's easy to reach for an alternative explanation of, oh they don't actually believe that, they're just saying that they believe it because of X Y Z.
I catch myself falling into this trap sometimes when I think about leftist views. Like when people complain about movies and TV shows being too white and not diverse enough. Sometimes I think, look it can't actually bother people that much when this or that piece of media doesn't meet their own preferred racial quotas, they have to just be saying this because they like the feeling of power it gives them, or maybe so they can get a cushy sinecure as a diversity consultant. But when I take a step back and think about it rationally, I realize that that's not a psychologically realistic model of how people operate. Most people don't just make shit up for years on end, even when they can derive some personal benefit from it. The simplest and most plausible explanation is that people really are upset about a lack of racial diversity in media, and they really do experience it as a serious injustice, foreign as that notion may be to me.
Similarly, I can assure you with full confidence that when rightists complain about leftist speech censorship, they really are angry about it, legitimately. It's not a ruse, it's not a Machiavellian attempt to advance some other covert agenda. You might think their reasons are bad, but the emotions are real regardless. If nothing else, you should be able to appreciate the obvious self-interest angle. If I want to say X, and other people are stopping me from saying X, then I'm naturally going to be upset about that.
Whereas people like Rowling aren't fully committed to that broader conservative project, they just want to slander and eradicate trans people
Saying that MTF transsexuals are not women is not in any way "violence", "hatred", or a call for "eradication".
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
26d ago
A principled leftist would do more than just spitefully fight for the sake of fighting
Isn't that why we're all here on this site though?
My opinion of leftism is fairly set in stone, we're many years past the point where further "examples" could change my mind one way or the other. Which also means that I attach relatively less emotion to the debates than I did a decade ago. Now I'm just here to argue out of pure love of the sport.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
26d ago
The system is not set up to persecute rich people
Then why did SBF get prosecuted and sentenced to 25 years in prison?
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
26d ago
I think all we need to not be an echo chamber is for posters to have a diversity of viewpoints, and to be comfortable expressing them. I don't think that the propensity of the average poster to change their mind has much to do with being a not-echo-chamber. Otherwise everywhere is an echo chamber, because it's rare for people to change their minds.
I also agree that it is possible for people to change their minds, it's just unlikely, and it takes a very specific set of circumstances that is unique to each individual.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
Thank you for posting this, I really appreciate it.
Personally if I was in charge and there was a mod decision that required a subjective judgement call, I would err on the side of extending leniency to posters with viewpoints that are underrepresented on this forum. I especially value posters like @guesswho who have alternative viewpoints on the "classic" culture war topics. It makes these discussions a lot more interesting.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
Epstein’s crimes were not of a financial nature, nor were they perpetrated against rich people, but he still faced consequences.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
Those were the targets that got him killed
I'm aware that that's what lead to his death, but I can't find any indication that that's what lead to his first arrest in 2006. I don't think it was part of anyone's script for Epstein to get arrested. They would have preferred that he just stay out of the public eye for his whole life.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
It’s already been acknowledged that longstanding posters with lots of AAQCs will be given a bit of extra wiggle room, and I would simply extend that to posters with underrepresented viewpoints as well, because the mere existence of a rare viewpoint is its own type of Quality Contribution.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
My guy, this is not how you solve your downvotes problem.
If you think a comment breaks the rules then just report it.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
I think people are interpreting what I said too broadly. I'm not saying that you should have free license to break the rules just because you're a contrarian. I'm just saying that I think it would be appropriate to give them a gentle reminder or two about the rules before the mods start escalating to warnings/bans.
In particular I've noticed a pattern where people with unpopular viewpoints are more likely to get riled up during debates, which makes sense, because when your views are unpopular it's easy to feel like everyone's out to get you. So they're more likely to get provoked into breaking the rules on civility. For the sake of cultivating a wide array of perspectives, which is a goal I value very highly, I think it would be appropriate to keep this in mind and extend them a small amount of leniency.
If they just seemed like a very dense poster and they weren't contributing anything except standard-issue moral outrage, then I might be slightly less lenient, but again as I already said at the beginning, it's a subjective judgement call.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
25d ago
because I don't feel excited, but think it's probably the right thing to do, and that I will probably be glad to have a son later on, I hope.
Did you want a daughter instead?
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
24d ago
Frequently when people feel this way about HBD, especially as it relates to themselves on a personal level, it's based on a misconception. A common caricature of HBD is that there's an identifiable property of "blackness" that has causal powers; almost as though black skin itself were some foreign organism exerting a downward pressure on your IQ, and if you could only shed your skin then you would unlock the full potential of your inherent abilities. This is completely incorrect.
The mechanisms that determine your IQ and other psychological traits are the exact same mechanisms at work in every other human, and at a purely physical level they have nothing to do with race. "Black" is a statistical concept that emerges at the population level as an amalgamation of traits and individuals. The race doesn't make the people, the people make the race.
That being said. It is a corollary of HBD that the pervasive dysfunction seen throughout Africa and black communities worldwide is in part caused by genetic factors. You are within your rights to think that this is a tragedy - but what of it? We live in a world that's filled to the brim with tragedies great and small. People die of disease, accidents, and violence every day, rich and poor alike, wise or foolish, virtuous or ignoble. HBD is not a unique cataclysmic injustice; rather it is just one more square in the patchwork of immiseration that is mankind's natural state.
You may be interested in the emerging possibilities of genetic engineering to increase intelligence and other eugenic psychological traits; but this is fraught with its own philosophical quandaries.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
24d ago
Any organization that is structurally committed to letting rightists speak freely (such as this forum) is, in some sense, already an explicitly rightist organization, and would therefore be exempt from Conquest’s second law.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
24d ago
You absolutely raise valid points. I didn't have the time to treat the issue with the nuance it deserves, so I tried to find something brief that approximates my overall view. I do think that at some point you have to find a way to accept the things you can't change and carry on anyway. But there are still many possible attitudes that someone might take towards HBD, and I don't want to diminish the complexity of the issue.
I do understand the feeling of group honor (racial or otherwise), and I understand how it can matter even in cases where you're not "directly" impacted as an individual.
This is the sort of thing that's best worked out in an extended dialogue with the person in question, rather than me or anyone else pontificating about how you should feel.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
23d ago
My memories of the earliest days are very fuzzy, but as far as I can remember even in the /r/slatestarcodex days, this forum always had a noticeable rightist bent, simply in virtue of the mere fact that it allows rightists to speak freely. If you're one of the few places that doesn't subject witches to trial by water, then you're going to attract an unusually high percentage of witches, even if that's not your explicit goal.
That being said, I think we have hit an all time low when it comes to the number of active leftist users, and I think that's due to a couple factors:
-
I think that the average leftist simply isn't interested in dialogue with rightists. This is evident in how they moderate their own spaces. Frequently when leftists get power, they simply ban (certain) right-wing views. If they don't want to deal with rightists in their own spaces, why would they want to come here and deal with us here? There's a reason that the left has become the party of deplatforming. I think it's pretty straightforward.
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Regardless of how open you are to dialogue, it can be mentally draining to be the only one arguing for a certain viewpoint while everyone else is against you. Once leftists start to self-select out of the discussion, more and more of them will start to decide it's not worth staying as they become a smaller and smaller minority, creating a vicious cycle. We also don't have an easy free source of new users because people can't just stop by with their reddit account when they see this place linked on subs like /r/sneerclub or whatever.
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Users with unpopular viewpoints are more likely to feel embattled by the general forum atmosphere, more likely to get heated during debates, and thus more likely to get banned. I don't want to litigate the cases of specific users here, but I can think of at least a couple examples of this.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
23d ago
What high quality posters do you think we're missing? Feel free to PM if you think it would cause drama or something.
(imo there's really only one notable poster I can think of who's been conspicuously absent lately, other than that I think the quality is doing ok, maybe even better than it was ~6 months ago.)
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
23d ago
Every time you write a top level post, it's a focus on your viewpoint!
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
23d ago
If this is simply a right-wing reddit
It’s not.
The quality of discussion is higher than anywhere on reddit, and unlike reddit, the admins have no interest in censoring certain political viewpoints; leftists and rightists alike are welcome.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
23d ago
Are you claiming that any space that claims to operate on a neutral principle of free speech is fundamentally duplicitous because it's just going to end up coalescing around a consensus viewpoint anyway?
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
23d ago
But, this isn't true - go to a Democratic/left-leaning well-educated group of political types and ask them about health care, taxes, etc. and they'll be a bunch of different ideas thrown around.
These are not "arguments". They are discussions about technical policy implementation details; discussions among friends who already agree on the underlying foundational political issues.
You know you're in a political argument when you feel like you've got skin in the game. It's a fundamentally anxiety-inducing process. If there's no anxiety, then you're dealing with policy, not politics.
Politics is that which you can't afford to get wrong.
I don't have much interest in arguing about why the 2020 election wasn't stolen, why the Jew's don't actually control everything, how smart or not specific racial groups are, and how much we have to limit women's freedom to get them to make more babies [...] immigration has basically been too high since anywhere from 1830 to 1970 depending on the poster, and our racial mix has been terrible since then
These are, in fact, exactly the sorts of issues that lead to political arguments. The fact that you are explicitly claiming that you have no interest in discussing these topics is further confirmation of the thesis that leftists are not interested in arguing with rightists.
I don't particularly begrudge you for this. But, either way, it is evidence for the point being made. It's not evidence against it.
Primaprimaprima
Bigfoot is an interdimensional being
22d ago
anybody who seriously thinks the reason why this place is more right-leaning is some belief that in a free and open debate with nobody limiting it, the right-leaning argument wins is kind of lying to themselves
I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that. That's certainly not what I was saying here.
the way the right wins these supposedly open spaces is saying enough things that trigger basically the fight or flight part of people's minds. [...] a lot of the current left are basically and I say this in descriptive way, The Other - single women, minorities, immigrants, non-straight people, etc. So yeah, I can see why many people if in a community where what they think is open racism/sexism/bigotry against them is accepted, they say bye, and leave that community.
This explanation assumes that leftist constituencies have a unique monopoly on being emotionally/materially invested in political issues, which is simply not true.
It's easy to find examples of anti-white/anti-male rhetoric in leftist spaces (I really did try my best to join the discussion on radfem blogs in the early '10s where most commenters thought that men were uniquely and irredeemably violent, that they were the cause of all social problems, that women should live apart from them and reduce the male population as much as possible, but I usually didn't last long before getting banned). Or just pick any hot button issue, unrestricted immigration from Central/South America, trans surgeries for kids, AA/DEI programs that explicitly take job offers and college admissions spots from whites and give them to non-whites... these are not abstract intellectual exercises, people perceive these things as very real and direct threats to their way of life. If rightists are still willing to entertain leftist viewpoints on these issues, then that does in fact indicate a higher baseline propensity among rightists to listen to and engage with opposing viewpoints. Blacks/women/immigrants are not the only ones who have ever felt "vulnerable".
Given the views that are sometimes expressed here, I don’t think you should be sharing any links to this forum at all with “polite company”.
And if you just want to share the essay without showing where it came from you can just edit that word out.
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