BANNED USER: Repetitive one-note posting about his suicide trip
SkookumTree
No bio...
User ID: 2117
Banned by: @Amadan
What do you think about the idea that in order to be morally worthy of a romantic relationship, you need to be willing and able to endure great suffering either for the greater good, or for your tribe, or for no reason at all? Women do this through pregnancy and childbearing, which I have heard legitimately compared to frontline infantry combat in its level of hardship. Therefore, what good is a man, in a relationship, if he is not willing and able to endure a hardship or challenge of similar difficulty? Chad compensates for this by being very good-looking and very determined; there is a good chance he would do well in a war, too. But for us mere mortals? Our existence is legitimized and our desire for romantic relationships stops being completely base, disgusting, and hypocritical when we have proven ourselves worthy through being conscientious, dedicated, and determined enough to suffer greatly for no damn reason - even, perhaps, to die for no good reason. The poets of the First World War, and the soldiers there, died pointlessly but admirably for a few inches of mud; they embodied all that is admirable about masculinity and lost their lives in the mud of Passchendaele and Verdun and the Somme.
Every man, now, needs to choose their own struggle. It's like Fight Club, except you expect and are prepared for - as much as anyone can be prepared for, which may not be much - entering what is essentially Hell on Earth and surviving it. Once you survive, you are now worthy: you have endured, you are willing to endure, therefore you now have business asking someone to endure a deep visceral biological disgust day after day to make you happy, and for the good of the next generation. And you, too, will suffer, or may suffer. Maybe it's a dangerous job, maybe it's your wife shooting you and putting you in the ICU, maybe it's figuring out how to deal with it when your wife becomes a raging alcoholic, maybe you really do get the life of domestic bliss. But probably not - you're not Chad, and as such you do not deserve domestic bliss, much as your wife is very likely to be deeply disgusted with you and chooses this as her least-bad option, making peace with her inability or unwillingness to be Stacy.
SkookumTree
1yr ago
Why do we expect and encourage the unattractive to have relationships? Yes. Disabled and ugly people deserve a shot at happiness. But there's a hell of a lot of suffering and tragedy that goes on there, and it may well be imprudent to bring children into that. If you're a dude who is 5'4" the least-bad outcome you can reasonably expect is marrying a woman twice your weight and watching her wind up in a nursing home age 44 because she sprained her ankle and couldn't take care of herself after that. And it only gets worse from there: I've known short guys who were with women that were child abusers. Serious shit - as in 'attempted murder' serious. It's no better for unattractive women: there's rapists and abusers and shitbags aplenty. Single motherhood isn't nice either.
I honestly don't get it: if you're unattractive as hell, whether that's partially in your control or not, dating and relationships will suck for you unless you are genuinely exceptional. The only short guy I knew that did OK with dating was a neurosurgery resident with enough charisma for a career in politics. The autistic woman I'm friends with - an emergency-medicine resident in California - wound up enduring a couple relationships with predatory, abusive shitbags before finding a decent guy. Shit fucking sucks, and there's a good chance that the best you're going to get is going to be straight up tragic.
SkookumTree
5mo ago
Assuming that I survive the Hock, how do you think the experience will change me as a person? Do you think it would make my judgment worse, or make me more likely to try crazy shit like this again?
SkookumTree
6mo ago
The Hock provideth.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
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Be fit. Ideally, you'd look like a Greek God.
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Be charismatic. Ideally, charismatic enough for a career in politics.
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Make a million a year or more.
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Have time for her.
If you're short (5'4" or less) or, God help you, autistic, this is what it takes. Otherwise, you're going to be deciding where you want the ambulances and be fishing in some really shitty ponds.
Complicated rules around creepiness are features, not bugs, designed to paralyze the unattractive or get them ostracized for daring to want sex or relationships.
For what it is worth, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
Get jacked, get social, get rich. Never make a social blunder. Survive life and death struggle. Ideally? Go to war for your country and come back in one piece.
You need to work on yourself until you're attractive to women. Get into a long-term committed, monogamous relationship with a woman who can stand being in the same room as you. Your mindset will improve.
For that - as I am - I need to decide where I want the ambulances, more or less; I hope that this can happen without doing things that are considered predatory such as trawling homeless shelters for girlfriends. That being said - and it's gross and nasty as hell, as well as at best morally murky - maybe relationships for the unattractive are just straight up hell and fucking suck, and part of the whole point is being able to bear the opprobrium of society AND whatever shit your girlfriend is slinging. For what it's worth, I know guys that have been attacked by knife wielding girlfriends; one of whom nearly died to blood loss. This is reasonable to expect from people, in my opinion: who cares if you die to blood loss at age 29 because your crazy girlfriend stabbed you, you've been in a relationship and she probably goes to jail or some shit, meaning that your betters are better off and you serve as an example and warning to others.
This is part of why I am going on the Hock on February 13, 2024, in the Alaskan wilderness somewhere north of the Arctic Circle: because I sincerely believe that this is a kind of preparation for a kind of struggle that is considered idiotic and stupid by the standards of my society. Also, the Hock will expose me to life and death struggle, which I think makes men more attractive. It is also going to make me more used to enduring pain, misery, privation, fear, cold, and hunger for no good reason. That's valuable when you wake up in the ICU thirteen days after being very nearly killed by your crazy girlfriend, one leg laying useless and crippled for life, rasping out statements about how you loved her and it was worth it.
Dulce et decorum est, boyos.
SkookumTree
7mo ago
Not just that. Nobody called the cops on you. Nobody tried to get you maimed or killed - or even beat up. Nobody tried to get you fired. In fact...I'd guess that the "really bad conversation" wasn't terrible - they didn't call you a rapist or something or make a scene. You're not unattractive, bro...keep up the good work.
SkookumTree
8mo ago
Thanks. That makes sense. It's probably better to have a terrible relationship with a girl that puts you in the fucking hospital with stab wounds than none at all. It's only now that I have realized this. You gain valuable wisdom if you survive and if you don't...who cares? At least she's probably going to pay for it.
Lower your standards until your main concern is that she's not a danger to herself or others. Don't go out with that type unless you are okay with being in jail or the hospital. Then go on a lot of dates. See if you can build your social skills. Maybe you will find an unexpected connection.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
Choosing some people by lot for celibate life paths does not seem like a terrible idea. Someone has to drive truck or some other occupation that meshes poorly with marriage and family life.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
many (myself included, though I'm happily married at this point) explicitly do not want someone who cares about status in the first place.
I mean...how bad do you want that? Would you rather be celibate for life than with someone who thinks Magic: The Gathering is for losers? Go ahead, then. Would you rather be with someone that's in and out of the local ER and rehabs for drug overdoses, or suicidal behavior related to bipolar disorder, or 500 pounds and a sprained ankle away from immobility...but is fine with Magic: The Gathering - or would you rather be with someone who can hold a job, maintain basic hygiene, and live independently, but thinks MTG is for losers?
Your call, boyo.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
A serious question: which has been more difficult for you/would be more difficult?
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Climbing to the summit of Mt. Everest
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Finding a partner that isn't morbidly obese, works a job, and is more or less sane.
Also, are you a military veteran? If you are: did you see combat? What made you think that anyone would ever be into you: did you ever get The Talk that you should be single for life because only gold diggers would be interested in you (not hyperbole; happened to me, age 21).
What is remarkable or extraordinary about you, if anything?
SkookumTree
11mo ago
Yeah, agreed. Men have duties to protect, provide, and lead: if something goes wrong, the buck stops at the man. Men who cannot or will not do this - who are unwilling to accept responsibility for their partners - aren't worthy.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
I mean...are you a tall dude that looks like he could be a male model? Are you a multimillionaire with yacht pics? Famous? Or...are you okay with women twice your weight? If this guy ain't conventionally attractive he needs a million a year and enough charisma for a career in politics plus the body of a Greek God, otherwise he's decidin' where he wants the ambulances.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
It doesn't inherently mean a miserable dating life any more than it locks you out of basketball success. Muggsy Bogues was 5'3" and played in the NBA. A relationship with someone who isn't morbidly obese, is sane, and can hold a job is probably slightly easier for Joe Average than playing Division I ball.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
Meth heads are usually thin...
Can you roughly define "good woman"? Someone who isn't a danger to herself or others, not morbidly obese (BMI < 40), holds or can hold a job (any job)?
And again - to be perfectly clear - I see absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with this state of affairs. The only thing I ever questioned was why the hell people should be in relationships with 500lb opiate addicts.
If you're conventionally attractive or very charismatic or rich, yes, you can get away with a lot of shit. Such is life: it ain't just dating, if you were born on third base and jogged home 'cause the Almighty hit a homer when you were born, you can get away with some shit.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
The highest-status thing you can do is lead men in combat. I've seen former military officers fucked up from drugs and PTSD in hospital beds that had girlfriends. I've seen veterans literally goddamn near dead, bellies swollen with ascitic fluid, livers failing...with girlfriends.
You've proven that men trust you with their lives. There are few higher honors.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
Dating is all about conforming to gender roles. That means that, as a man, you'll have to approach, and you should be "confident."
Yeah. The most masculine thing a man can do is go to war. If you come back in one piece, and can hold down a job, you'll be more attractive. However, you will pay an incredibly hefty price for that. I recommend joining the Marines, if you're directionless.
SkookumTree
5mo ago
Autistic guys can slay.
Maybe if they're fairly good looking, tall, and insanely dedicated - I'm talking at least as determined as a Navy SEAL. Since they were in single digits. The kind of person that could write courses on communication and facial expressions. The kind of person that makes a social blunder once a decade while sober. The kind of person that can inspire people, ironically, to endure Hock-level privation for no good goddamn reason. As far as I'm concerned, every word and gesture a neurotypical makes is a performance not much less graceful than that of a concert pianist or professional ballet dancer, and they can often inspire people to endure immense hardship in order to make them happy.
As far as positive comments: people almost unanimously said that it was stupid; many had respect for it but thought it was no less stupid.
SkookumTree
6mo ago
Eh...it can't be as bad as dealing with things like chronic pain, or going to war, or making it through selection for the Green Berets - and I know people who've done all of the above.
It's interesting that the guys I knew that went to war were doing well with girls...even when they were literally at death's door from alcoholism-induced liver failure. I think that it's being able to exert immense levels of willpower and learning to be graceful and effective when your life is in danger.
SkookumTree
6mo ago
It is likely that it will be more or less understood that you will never have a partner. You aren't making a million a year, you don't have enough charisma for a career in politics, AND you are fundamentally disgusting on a deep visceral biological level due to autism or shortness or something like that. The best you can realistically hope for is someone that holds their nose and endures that disgust due to religious or personal convictions.
Are you charismatic enough to convince people to more or less go through Hell basically to make you happy? Are you able to hang in a contest of wills against a Navy SEAL or better yet the Saigon monk who calmly burned himself to death? Are you OK with being maimed, even killed, by your partner? Being a nurse and caretaker to someone who's addicted to something and only using you as an enabler? If you are OK with all of these things - and a goddamn saint to boot, AND you never make a social blunder large enough to be described in words - congratulations. You have The Right Stuff to be in a relationship.
Climbing Mt. Everest is probably easier; I think K2 is on a par with being in a relationship. Or maybe Everest - if you're doing it without oxygen and maybe solo.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
I am sorry for not being insufficiently clear. For a lot of things, there are three (not two) levels. Rich, middle class, and poor. Attractive, average, and unattractive. Hell, strong as fuck, average, and puny. My intention wasn't to say the equivalent of "If you ain't rich, you're a hobo begging for spare change"; that is just straight up false. I meant to say that if you were unattractive (as distinct from average) your dating options sucked.
Also, there are exceptions. I knew one.
SkookumTree
11mo ago
Maybe you can bite the bullet and argue that many nerds have the tendency to turn Henry when things get rough, and at least Henry's charismatic and all. Maybe he protects his wives from other dudes or something. It's a difficult (but not impossible) argument to make that Henry's partners would be genuinely better off with him than with our awkward nerds. I'd like to see the argument made, to be honest.
This is not minimizing domestic violence. It's saying "Maybe being with an awkward nerd is actually worse than being with a shitbag domestic abuser like Henry, for reasons that aren't immediately obvious". What I think is that Henry is basically a con man selling a product that is literal toxic garbage, and the nerd's product is better, but his salesmanship is shit.
This is something I've been mulling over for a while: if you aren't lucky and fairly determined, as a man - maybe as a human being - you need to decide where you want the ambulances and the tragedy if you want a relationship.
This is a stage that many people pass through at one point or another, and it is admirable to have strong enough personal or religious convictions to attempt it. Maybe that means being stoically resigned to being sexually assaulted or raped because you're a somewhat awkward but physically attractive mildly autistic 17-year-old girl who wants to experience life and have a family someday. In that model, you accept that you are going to need to kiss some frogs to find your prince. And you have an immune deficiency, so you genuinely make your peace with the fact that those frog kisses are likely to lead you to a couple of hospital stays that hopefully don't give you permanent damage. Maybe it means accepting that your girlfriend might stab you because you stuck it in crazy to get whatever wisdom comes from sex or relationships; maybe it means being maimed at 48 by your wife and the mother of your three children and winding up nearly dying, losing a limb, and spending three weeks in the local ICU.
I think that this is admirable and respectable, that in ages past men and women endured similar dangers in order to be worthy, and that war for men and childbirth for women have been how these tragedies played out until very recently.
What's your take on this?
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