Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
"Behind our efforts, let there be found our efforts."
User ID: 83
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
12d ago
I think the sexual revolution was terrible for society. It was also pretty bad for women themselves.
How about some bullet-biting: It was terrible for society and possibly bad for women on average, but also eliminated many of the worst-case woman situations, and created some new best-case man situations, and you can't undo it because it's too attractive in the short term.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
12d ago
Noita was a frustrating bullet hell game to me.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
12d ago
nifty meta-narrative like DS2 did, or at least not with such gravitas or panache.
Please elaborate.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
12d ago
It's important to note (as I mentioned) that this doesn't necessarily get you much against a physically comparable opponent -- if you have a hold of his knife arm, his other arm is still free to pummel you with -- and if he overpowers your grip on his knife hand, you are in a very convenient spot to be stabbed. But a 12 yo girl is a whole different story.
If the "Ultimate Self Defence Championship" is anything to go by, then defending yourself, unarmed, against a fit and aggressive adult man is just about impossible.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
If extremely illiberal Muslims are supposed to be in our ingroup
That's not what western progressive leftists believe, though. To them, the Muslims aren't actually illiberal themselves but simply conditioned to illiberal habits by the illiberal societies that oppressed them, and having escaped to the liberal West, they are sure to adopt liberal norms if not swiftly then at least certainly over enough time (and any failure to do so is because our own Western societies have too much residual illiberalism).
The temporarily embarassed liberal muslim is supposed to be our ingroup.
who isn't?
The Nazis.
Obviously.
(Where "The Nazis" is anyone who actively rejects the leftist agenda.)
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
Let's be frank here - Lola and Ruby sound like straight-up hooker names.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
But then why is his name Ali? The world makes no sense.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
Somewhere in between the progressive girlboss stereotype and the evopsych illustration described by OP there's a reasonable middle place in which women do fulfill their biological role and still live respectable lives in which they make their own decisions. I think there's quite a few modern women who do inhabit that place, though they are doubtless under much pressure to go elsewhere. Historically I think we've been to that middle place sometime in the latter half of the 20th century...but then again, by that time there was also significant movement to the girlboss place. So maybe western society was closer in earlier times. Early 20th century maybe?
Idle musings. Anyways. Do you disagree with any specific points of OPs reasoning, or do you just find the depiction of women distasteful?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
Okay, but is the possible hanging of Mike Pence, a man I last heard of described as an enemy of modernity and progress and all that is good and moral, really what the left and polite society are so up in arms against?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
[Unimportant details] german-descended immigrants [Even less important details].
I rest my case.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
men from these countries do have at least one very important physical attribute working in their favor, relative to the world at large.
Statistically, maybe. I grumble.
What makes you think I'm against compliance mechanisms?
Nothing. I don't think I said as much, either. I'm taking modern-day pseudo-creedal states and pointing out one of their failure modes as something to consider in this discussion.
I believe the government has a duty and an interest in enforcing prosocial behavior. That's the entire point of creedal citizenship! You can say that it's a problem that people might defect against shared values and I'd agree with you, but it's crazy talk to identify the shared values as the problem, rather than the defection.
If the shared values promote or tolerate continuous large-scale defection or prohibit acting against defection, then yes I certainly identify the shared values as the problem.
A society built on-- for example-- shared ancestry, doesn't even get to the starting line!
A society built on shared ancestry, depending on which ancestry that is, may not have to. I'm not saying it's universally superior to creedal citizenship, but in many cases, especially where the ancestry is an especially good one or the creed an especially bad one, it certainly would be.
For every belief I have, if I thought there was a more beneficial belief to posses, I would believe that instead. Therefore I can rationally conclude that I have the most-beneficial beliefs. My meta-confidence isn't 100%, since I could imagine learning reasons to swap out my beliefs again-- but for that exact reason it makes sense to bring in people with competing beliefs, so that I can either convert them, dominate them, or assimilate their more-adaptive traits.
This presupposes that you are indeed a competent judge of how beneficial a given belief is, and able to jettison old ones and replace them with new ones at will. You might be.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
Didn't you read his name? "Ali" never seemed very Christian to begin with.
YMMV on the relevance, but I'd say a twelve-year-old girl with knife/hatchet is still a deadly threat, and register confusion with arguments in the previous thread that the idea of a twelve-year-old girl being able to seriously harm someone with a large knife or hatchet is somehow laughable. In my view, this is an exceedingly rare occurrence because of the normative psychological incapacity toward killing wrath of twelve-year-old girls, not because of any innate physical incapacity. Edged weapons greatly magnify the harm a given amount of force can inflict.
FWIW, I may have somewhat conflated physical and psychological attributes and the specific girl in the Scottish video case. That specific 12-year-old girl, given her frame and behavior, seemed eminently not dangerous.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
13d ago
I wouldn't know that, but he's certainly making a mountain out of a molehill and it's slightly cringy.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
Actually a good example, thanks.
But would the Amish work if they weren't embedded inside a larger country?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
Qualia always struck me as the basic material computation within biological systems. There's nothing magical about it.
Qualia, Consciousness, Sapience etc. all strike me as conversation starters that are sufficiently vague yet overloaded with implied meaning to forever escape any demands for rigor or practical application. A thousand years from now we'll probably have harnessed the power of the stars to feed unimaginably powerful thinking machines and the best insight they'll have into those topics will be something like "It's whatever the fuck you want it to be".
Of course, I'm a barely literate peasant. It's probably all perfectly sensible. But man does it look like so much pseudobabble from here.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
Women entered the work force, the supply of labor was effectively doubled
Temporarily.
And now here sit we, these modern countries so proud of their female workforce, and wonder where the babies have gone that should have been the next generation of labor.
Alright, here's my contribution: It sure would be nice if one society could manage to agree to one set of core values and live by them and everyone pulls on the same rope, as we say here, and also that creed turns out to be a really good one and there's nothing wrong with it. Others can come in so long as they comply with this creed. People are kicked out when they don't. But the creed is good, and the nation prospers.
Failure modes:
- Inclusion does not work; people are let in but they do not actually uphold the creed. This happens all the time in western society.
- Exclusion does not work; people ignore the creed yet remain citizens. This happens all the time in western society.
- The creed is self-destructive, and upholding it is actively harmful. This happened in, for example, the Soviet Union.
- The creed is viable, inclusion and exclusion work, the nation prospers, but the creed isn't actually western liberalism so we don't want it. I have no examples on hand.
I'm rambling a little. My core point is this: A creedal nation, if poorly thought out, will just be any western country as it exists right now, or a totalitarian nightmare, or something entirely unlike what we (for a given vaue of we) currently envision or desire.
IMO it's all hot air anyways. The future won't give a shit about what people believe or what ethnicity they might be traced back to. Technological totalitarianism that has full control of each and every individual seems more likely than grand social experiments of the feel-good kind.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
people who agree to mutually benefit each other.
And people who lie about it. And people who half-heartedly agree to it just enough to be let in. And people who are born into it and then reject it but there's no mechanism for excluding them or making them comply.
the best beliefs
Best as in most beneficial to hold, or best as in most able to propagate in a competitive environment? Because a belief that is the one may not also be the other.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
and I don't know that a creedal nation can stay coherent, if you can participate without following the creed it's based on.
How about second-class or otherwise tiered or modular citizenship?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
This post may be peak motte modding. It should be printed, framed, and hung over the physical server.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
I think you latched on a little too strongly to this issue, and it would be advisable to let it go.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
14d ago
sonder
It's wrong in so many ways. "sonder" in German isn't a noun. It's not even a real word. It can't stand on its own! You combine it with various other word-components to make a real word.
Some examples:
- absondern: excrete
- besonders: special
- sonderlich: strange
- sondern: but
- Besonderheit: peculiarity
And if for some absurd reason it were a noun of its own, you'd be obliged to capitalize it. And then it still wouldn't mean what, according to Google, it supposedly means in English!
Okay, yeah, universal suffrage and representative democracy do seem like a stopgap measure that is slowly due an upgrade or replacement. So what does he actually suggest? Restoring the aristocracy? Military junta? Same oligarchy as now, but without the pretence of democracy?
That seems close to pointless. Curtailing their ability to advertise and evangelize, sure. But literally killing them? Are the gays truly the most corrosive element in society that deserves uniquely lethal treatment? Not the jews, or the leftists, or the rich, or the muslims, or the elites?
Okay, yeah, either this one or artifical wombs is probably going to happen sooner or later. Making babies is not optional for civilization.
I don't understand this sentence. Please explain for dumb foreigners.
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