Tarnstellung
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User ID: 553
Tarnstellung
7d ago
Wow, what a cancerous website.
"What I think that is referring to is there is no evidence in the studies," Strangio replied, "that this treatment reduces completed suicide, and the reason for that is completed suicide, thankfully, and admittedly, is rare, and we're talking about a very small population of individuals with studies that don't necessarily have completed suicides within them. However, there are multiple studies, long-term, longitudinal studies, that do show that there is a reduction in suicidality, which I think is a positive outcome to this treatment."
So, there is evidence it does improve mental health (suicidality being a component thereof), just no evidence it reduces the rate of successful suicides. You will note both my comment and yours talked about mental health, not the rate of successful suicides, which, as Strangio noted, are rare.
Tarnstellung
7d ago
"Die Cis Scum" was a meme over a decade ago.
I did think of this, but I thought it was obvious that it was a joke. Do you seriously believe trans people want the 99% of the human population who are cis to be exterminated?
Spicy rhetoric, yes, but I don't see any actual calls for violence. The event, which was cancelled, was supposed to be peaceful protest.
The avalanche of death and rape threats directed towards JK Rowling or Kellie-Jay Keen
This is not about trans people specifically, but in general, I find it odd that people talk about "death and rape threats" as if they were actual, credible threats, and not, you know, just a thing a random anonymous person wrote online. I imagine these are boomers taking these things seriously, people who grew up before the internet. This applies just as much to the alleged victims of Gamergate, to trans people who receive such "threats", etc.
(the latter of whom was actually physically assaulted in public)?
No, I hadn't heard of her having tomato juice poured on her. The perpetrator was convicted. Was there widespread sympathy for the perpetrator among trans people?
Assorted macabre, threatening protest placards like "The only good TERF is a ____ TERF"? SNP members photographed standing next to a placard reading "decapitate TERFs"? None of this ringing a bell?
No, I hadn't seen any of those, either. Perhaps the problem is that I hung out in trans spaces – places where trans and questioning people talk to each other and the odd curious observer like me – and not at public events where the rhetoric is meant for the general public. You'd think they'd want to tone things down for the public, and be forthright about their ill intentions in more trans-focused spaces, but in fact, in the latter, I've seen zero calls for any kind of actual violence.
But, in general, I'm sure you could cherry-pick a similar amount of violent rhetoric if you looked at the fringes of anti-trans activism. (One that comes to mind is the emote of a trans person being hanged on rdrama.net. "Trannies get the rope" gets 196 hits on Google – and that's just one, highly specific phrase.) In neither case is it representative.
This was, ironically, a profoundly uncharitable reading of what I said. All I'm advocating is consistency. If we must trawl through the entire digital footprint of every trans mass shooter to determine exactly what it is that drove them to commit their horrific misdeeds, we should do the same with every mass shooter and resist the urge to buy into a simplistic narrative of their having been radicalised by Andrew Tate or whoever. I'm not advocating for trans criminals to be treated especially uncharitably, but rather for consistency in how criminals are treated regardless of their identity characteristics.
You seemed to be advocating for consistency in the opposite direction: that trans people and incels should both be treated as violent threats to society. If you agree that both are overblown as a whole, and that individual cases should be examined individually, then we are in agreement.
I rather resent your implication that there is no moral difference between a) reading too much into a real case that actually happened and b) producing a fictional miniseries about a problem that does not exist and using it as a cudgel with which to beat an entirely blameless demographic.
I don't know, arguing over which is worse seems a bit pointless. Can we agree both are bad?
It is not untrue for me to assert that there have been at least three mass shootings committed by trans people so far this year.
Tumbler Ridge and Turkey, what's the third one?
It is not untrue for me to assert that there have been at least eight mass shootings or killing sprees committed by trans people so far this decade. It hardly seems unreasonable for me to infer that a pattern seems to be emerging here, nor that it might be worth investigating what commonalities the perpetrators might have besides their gender identities.
Eight events in the entire world is not enough to suggest a pattern of any kind, given that there are tens of millions of trans people in the world.
Tarnstellung
7d ago
That is not true, see elsewhere in this very thread that transition increases psychiatric morbidity.
Reading the study now. I'll respond to the original post later.
See also the 41% suicide rate of transitioners, which is not a sign of a mentally healthy population on average(after all, most depressives manage not to kill themselves).
Well, on this one, you're blatantly wrong. First of all, it's a suicide attempt rate. Secondly, it's for all trans people, not just transitioners – including those who weren't able or allowed to transition, due to social or other circumstances. Also, the survey this figure comes from was conducted in 2011; a lot has changed in the meantime.
Tarnstellung
7d ago
Do you believe incel/manosphere attackers should receive the benefit of the doubt, i.e., their attacks should not be attributed to them being incels/part of the manosphere?
Tarnstellung
7d ago
Source?
Tarnstellung
7d ago
You are just repeating that they are being dishonest. That you should be dishonest in turn is a non sequitur. Again, why not point out their dishonesty and double standards and be better than them? At least on this website, if in the real world you feel a need to act dishonestly for pragmatic political reasons.
Tarnstellung
7d ago
On the contrary, empirically, treating them as crazy and trying to make them not-trans makes them miserable and doesn't stop them from thinking they're trans, while treating them as their preferred gender and allowing them to medically transition lets most of them lead happy, fulfilling lives. The question of whether they are their preferred gender or should merely be treated as if they were is academic.
Tarnstellung
7d ago
trans spaces which contain violent, hateful rhetoric
Spend enough time in trans spaces and you'll see plenty of people arguing that trans women are outright superior to cis women
I've spent plenty of time in trans spaces and I haven't seen any of that.
or that people who don't buy into gender ideology are hateful and backward.
Well, yeah, believing your political opponents are backward is par for the course, is it not? Do you not believe trans activists are backward?
Sure, they could have. I'm just fed up of the double standard. If he was a self-identified incel, that would have been the end of the story: no one would be going full internet forensics trying to find out what else might have radicalised him other than participation in incel communities. "He once liked an Andrew Tate video– case closed!" But no matter how much violent, hateful rhetoric they spew, online trans communities seem to be awarded an inexhaustible benefit of the doubt.
"My political opponents are being uncharitable, so I'll be uncharitable back!" Many such cases. But isn't that against the rules on this website? And, you know, a bad thing in general?
I'm going to reply to @ZeStriderOfDunedain here since this is the same basic idea. He writes:
But this rhetorical charity is never extended to incels as a group. Just look at the hysteria "Adolescence" kicked off. A fictional 13yo boy fictionally killed his fictional classmate and everyone was acting like there was an actual irl pandemic of manosphere incels murdering your daughters, but statistically violence against women has been trending down over the years.
If the other side is being uncharitable or plain dishonest, point it out and ask them to be charitable and honest. Don't stoop to their level.
Tarnstellung
7d ago
A screenshot is in the first link in the top-level comment. Not the whole thing, but it does have the bit I was talking about.
Tarnstellung
9d ago
Did you read the "manifesto"? There was clearly much wrong with this person beyond anything to do with being trans. Do trans communities generally tell people they're "the ultimate human" and "better than everyone around me intelligence wise"?
And if the shooter had these beliefs not caused by being trans/hanging around in trans spaces, then could their other beliefs – such as that shooting up a school is a good idea – also have come from elsewhere?
(I will also say that it's amusing seeing them write how they're intellectually superior to everyone else because they are "fluent at [sic] English".)
Tarnstellung
9d ago
Your objection is that they're not American nationalists? Do you know what the word "catholic" means?
And I doubt any "internationalist SJ wokie" would agree with their (very strongly held) stance on abortion.
Tarnstellung
10d ago
The sunlight hours theory is suspect. I would expect them to have adapted to it over the millennia, the same way they evolved lighter skin. Meanwhile, in places with ample sunlight, people do their best to avoid it: historically in the form of the siesta, nowadays awake but in an enclosed, air-conditioned space.
Tarnstellung
10d ago
Oops, I was confusing adultery with fornication. My confusion stemmed from "thou shalt not commit adultery" commonly being interpreted as also prohibiting fornication. I was actually asking about your opinion on non-adulterous extramarital sex.
Tarnstellung
11d ago
By adultery, do you mean cheating (even if only technically, given that the man Kamala was with was separated), or does it include any form of extramarital sex?
Tarnstellung
11d ago
To be honest, I was just interested in what the forum had to say on this. My own comments were perfunctory, made solely to avoid falling afoul of the low-effort rule. I didn't really have anything to add. Was there a better way to do this?
Tarnstellung
12d ago
I think you're using the label "Democrats" to mean "literally anyone I dislike or disagree with".
The democrats defended the film “Last Temptation of Christ” that depicted Christ as struggling with homosexuality
Were Democrats (members of the Democratic party, people involved in fundraising for the party, etc.) defending the film, or just generally left-wing or progressive people? Are the defenders representative of the Democratic party?
they defended an art display that was literally a crucifix in a jar of urine.
This one is peculiar in that:
Serrano [the artist] said of the controversy: "I had no idea Piss Christ would get the attention it did, since I meant neither blasphemy nor offense by it. I've been a Catholic all my life, so I am a follower of Christ." (...)
On June 23, 2023, Andres Serrano was included among a group of artists invited to meet with Pope Francis in the Sistine Chapel as part of an effort to "broaden out the engagement of the church with artists" and to proclaim the church's commitment to supporting art that serves "to waken us up, call us to a new alertness and a new consciousness" about issues of social justice.[26] During this meeting, the pope blessed Serrano and gave him a thumbs up gesture of approval. Serrano remarked, "I was very happy that the church understands that I am a Christian artist and I am not a blasphemous artist. I’m just an artist."
Is the Pope Catholic Christian?
According to a 2025 poll, 62% of US adults described themselves as Christians. This percentage used to be even higher in the past – you know, when the Democratic party won majorities in elections. A very large proportion of Democratic party voters identify as Christians.
KTO-KEGO
"Who whom" in Polish with the latter misspelled? Do I have this right?
Tarnstellung
12d ago
Trump deletes post depicting him as Jesus-like figure after backlash
Faced with growing backlash, US President Donald Trump appears to have removed a controversial Truth Social post depicting himself as a Jesus-like figure.
The AI-generated image, which showed Trump appearing to heal a sick man in a hospital bed, sparked fierce backlash from both sides of the US political spectrum, including from some of Trump's most ardent supporters. (...)
The now-deleted image showed Trump, wearing a white robe, with a glowing hand on the forehead of a sick man, which critics said was similar to religious paintings showing Jesus healing the infirm.
The background of the images included the Statue of Liberty, a large US flag fluttering, fighter jets and an eagle, as well as a nurse, a woman praying and what appeared to be a soldier in uniform. (...)
Criticism of the image came swiftly, including from figures considered close to Trump and the administration.
"This should be deleted immediately," wrote Sean Feucht, a Christian activist who is working on a series of faith-based events to mark the 250th anniversary of the US Declaration of Independence this year. (...)
Riley Gaines, a prominent conservative activist, wrote that "God shall not be mocked".
Much of the criticism also came from faith-based US news outlets.
"This goes too far. It crosses the line," wrote David Brody, a journalist with the Christian Broadcasting Network. "A supporter can back the mission and reject this."
If the image had been satirical, people would have dismissed it as too over the top. But Trump's taste is such that he posted this thing unironically.
Any Trump supporters care to steelman this? To me, the most parsimonious explanation is that Trump is a narcissist with a god complex.
Tarnstellung
12d ago
they outsource tons of their employment to foreign countries
Truly despicable.
Tarnstellung
12d ago
[You should care about foreigners dying or suffering.]
Do you know what website you're on?
Tarnstellung
12d ago
ending the Iranian civilization (which I take him to mean destroy their energy infrastructure)
I truly don't see how you arrived at that interpretation. Why not interpret "ending the Iranian civilization" as ending the Iranian civilization?
Tarnstellung
1yr ago
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. There was a conflict of interest after all!
Those IRC logs don't really exonerate Gamergaters, though. The people there are openly talking about sharing Quinn's nudes. I thought these were supposed to be the non-harassers? Gjoni himself condemns it, but the rest of the server seems fine with it. Sharing her nudes is clearly harassment, and if they're doing this, how do we know they aren't engaging in all the other forms of harassment she received?
And another question, if you don't mind: what is the timeline on the Grayson/Quinn conflict of interest? Did people first believe she traded sex for positive coverage, and only when this turned out to be false did they find out about their prior (non-sexual) relationship, by going through their Twitters? When did each of these events occur?
Also, do you know how Sarkeesian and Wu got involved? Wikipedia places them right next to Quinn as victims of Gamergate, but as far as I can tell, there were no allegations of unethical behaviour on their part. According to Wikipedia, Wu was targeted "as retaliation for mocking Gamergate", while Sarkeesian was targeted because people didn't like Tropes vs. Women in Video Games. Would proponents of Gamergate consider these harassment campaigns unrelated to Gamergate?
Edit: I'm going through the /r/kotakuinaction stuff, it might have the answers to my questions, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
Tarnstellung
1yr ago
I'm not sure if this is going to get any eyeballs here, but I don't think a short post asking a question is appropriate for the CW thread.
Is there an overview of Gamergate anywhere, from the pro-Gamergate side? The anti-Gamergate view is readily available on Wikipedia. (I hope I'm using pro- and anti- right.)
In particular:
- What concerns were there about "ethics in gaming journalism"?
- What is the response to "Grayson never actually reviewed any of Quinn's games, and his only Kotaku article mentioning them was published before their relationship began"?
- Was the claim of a conflict of interest really based on a typo in "The Zoe Post"? What is the response to this revelation?
- How did Sarkeesian and Wu get involved? What is their relation to "ethics in gaming journalism"?
- Was there really pre-existing seething from gamers about Depression Quest that motivated Gamergate? What was that about?
- What is the response to the harassment Quinn, Sarkeesian and Wu received?
Tarnstellung
2yr ago
History is being mangled to suit the current leaderships far left idea of the world by eliminating any trace of the Aryan Invasion theory.
Surely that should be "far right"?
I agree with the gist of your post. I just want to comment on:
A person with 3M+ followers on Twitter is not a nobody. The Streisand effect may well have contributed somewhat, but that kind of growth in four years isn't unusual.
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