VIM
5d ago
But the West Bank isn't part of Israel proper
The Israelis would certainly disagree, considering they exercise effective sovereignty over the West Bank, their citizens regularly enter the West Bank to steal homes and goats from Palestinians and their military provides overwatch to protect their citizens from any Palestinians attempting to defend themselves. Israel doesn't have defined borders, allowing them to exercise sovereignty over territory without granting the people there the rights that every other state grants to people living under its jurisdiction ie. citizenship.
But turn that back on the US again, and people will talk about all the places we have "occupied" and exerted our will and even allowed bad behavior on the part of American settlers.
What American settlers? America has certainly invaded plenty of countries but unless you go back over a hundred years it hasn't brought settlers along. Can you identify the country where Americans operate like Israeli settlers?
It's that most of these critiques of Israel are essentially isolated demands for legitimacy. They aren't motivated by anything Israel in particular is doing that's worse or more nefarious than what other nation states do.
Quite on the contrary, the Israelis take actions that, performed by other countries, resulted in their obliteration. South Africa tried to create a similar state of affairs to that of the West Bank but their equivalents were called "Bantustans", their state was crushed under sanctions and they were forced to give the black Africans equal voting rights that resulted in their destruction. The Rhodesians tried to justify their state under the principle of "might makes right" only to run out of fighters and ammo under the resulting international blockade.
There is no criticism anti-Israel activists have of Israel's involvement in global and American politics that isn't true of a number of other countries, from Egypt to Qatar to South Korea to Russia.
Let's compare with another country that occasionally is claimed to control American politics, Saudi Arabia. The Saudis received aid prosecuting their invasion of Yemen and they certainly spend more money on lobbying yet as soon as dead kids starting appearing on TV an anti-Saudi coalition assembled in Congress to pressure Trump and Trump forced the Saudis to give up after a year.
In contrast, Biden repeatedly refused to do anything to rein in the Israelis despite the enormous political cost. Then Harris refused to even pretend that she would do anything to rein in the Israelis, costing her the key swing state of Michigan and possibly the Presidency. Trump proceeded to do Israel's dirty work in Iran like a big dumb golem and blew up his entire Presidency as a result. All this and when Netanyahu shows up to visit Congress he receives dozens of comical, Stalinesque standing ovations despite having an approval rating from the American public of something like -50.
What other American ally stole American nuclear secrets to create a nuclear program without American permission and remained an American ally?
VIM
5d ago
Everything you've said about how Israel is an illegitimate colonizing power is also true of the US and Canada. You're surely aware of that. What the Arab revisionists say about "Is-not-real" is what a lot indigenous activists say about "Turtle Island." The only real difference is time and practicality - Arabs still believe if they get enough of the world to sympathize with them, they can destroy Israel, while even the most radical Native groups don't believe in their wildest dreams that they can expel white people from North America.
There are a few other differences. For example, while commie protesters may describe their respective countries as "settler colonial states" the US and Canada do not possess any "settler movement" of white kids moving onto Indian Reservations to steal their houses, let alone a state of affairs where said land thieves are provided with military protection and sniper cover lest any Indians foolishly attempt to defend their property with force. On the contrary, American Indians possess the exact same voting rights as "settlers" plus unique privileges like tax benefits. The right of Canadian Indians to freely travel to and live within the US dates back to the 18th Century whereas West Bank Palestinians possess no such right to freely travel to Israel.
I support a One State Solution in which Jews are free to purchase land in Hebron and Palestinians are free to purchase land in Tel Aviv. Of course, the Israelis don't support such a solution because they don't want the right to live in the West Bank, they want to dominate the West Bank by removing the Palestinians entirely.
But this is kind of a silly post because no Israeli settler is showing up with a legitimate land deed purchased voluntarily, they're showing up with clubs and weapons at olive fields that have been harvested by Palestinians for generations. You can crow about Hebron all you want but the settlers have no such claims of Jewish ownership of Taybeh or any of the other countless villages they're attempting to depopulate. You may as well describe the Holocaust as a defensive act during the German-Jew War that started when the Jews assassinated a German ambassador.
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