aiislove
2yr ago
Yes, I think you're right, and I think the right response when we see people reacting to things that are completely beyond their realm of understanding is compassion and empathy, not condescension and cynicism.
The fact that modern society is able to keep us from helping less educated people around us through top-down silencing and oppression is really rather sick, I don't necessarily lay the blame on people reacting with cynicism in this thread when they also are met with overwhelming social forces that tried to silence them as well. But on a visceral level it strikes me as ugly when smart people reduce dumber people in this way though I can also see how smarter people are being degraded by the powers at the same time.
aiislove
2yr ago
I empathize with your sentiment but I think it's a little bit uncharitable, I mean people had a valid right to be afraid of the virus as well. My father was high risk and ended up dying from it, so to paint everyone who freaked out about the virus as a sheeple is slightly insulting, though I realize that for the majority of people they didn't have nearly as much reason to worry. I also wonder if you're living in a blue tribe setting or somewhere outside the US as the response from where I was in a more rural area wasn't nearly as sheeple-y as your post seems to indicate, plenty of people were rolling their eyes the entire time in the small town I was living in
aiislove
2yr ago
For further reading on your gay question I'd recommend Beachy's "Gay Berlin" and Foucault's "The History of Sexuality." From these texts I came away with the impression that "gayness" and "transness" are a sort of modern western invention. I wrote a bit more about it in this thread.
aiislove
2yr ago
The economics for small-scale production, and what's going on. A little on the logistics side -- how and why is Etsy pulling 6% of sales fees and eBay 13% compared to PayPal's (already high) 3% -- but more seriously what's going on for the producers. I've got competing models where there's either a) a small industry of people creating cool bespoke stuff for a small but livable be-your-own-boss, b) an ecosystem where the only people actually making a real income are selling shovels and a tiny number of superstars, while most are second-'income'-less-than-min-wage a la writing, or c) both. This might seem trite, but the whole patrons of the arts has been one of the few plausible answers to automating all the things away... but a lot of the plausibility depends on actual existence proofs.
I'm a seller on a handful of sites including Etsy. Etsy takes way more than 6%, it ends up being closer to ebay's 13%. Sellers still sell on these platforms (ebay, etsy) because buyers trust them and most of us don't want to invest the time and money into marketing and managing independent sites that no one will be able to find because google is optimized to give everybody links to ebay and etsy already.
C is correct. There are millions of people selling their products on these platforms who range from teen girls reselling thrift store clothes from their closet and making too little to even report to the IRS, to dudes selling thousands of mass produced products a day and making bank. And everything in between. Personally I abhor working with or for other people which is why I do the "livable be-your-own-boss" thing.
aiislove
2yr ago
As a capitalist, I want to know what you'd pay for and your consulting rates. Criticism as a demand side problem sounds interesting too. Also hosting an uncensorable site.
aiislove
2yr ago
I'm interested in the first three. Especially the third. I abhor the postmodern assertion that free will is an illusion on a visceral level and would love to read some discussion here about that.
I'm glad you asked. Here's a few ideas, let me know if any of these are interesting to you and I'll think about writing something out.
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Cultures often seem to develop in ways that echo or react to the cultures right next to them. For example many French cultural traits seem to be resolutely anti-British and many Japanese cultural traits seem to be purposely anti-Chinese.
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"Late capitalism"- I used to roll my eyes at this term but lately it seems extremely apt. Broadly speaking, the powerhouses of the 21st century seem to be on some kind of steep decline while China is ascendant. I don't think China has the demographics or goodwill of the rest of the globe to rival US hegemony so I envision the next few decades will be a steep global decline driven by America's flailing performance in the next 10 years or so, dragging the global economy along with it. The rise of AI will make the situation more uneven and unpredictable, gains will be huge in some sectors and rapid decay will plague other fields. The current condition of Japan was quite shocking to see as someone who first visited about 18 years ago and I see its rapid decline as a canary in the coalmine for a handful of other nations.
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What I learned about power from being gay and single for over three decades while also traveling in different cultures, shoehorning in some vague beliefs about reality and perception and also narcissism and selfishness and being spoiled and privileged and having the luxury of believing an incoherent and untrue version of the world. This is a lot but basically boils down to something like: we are all driven to seek power, but are born powerless and are told not to seek it. Power is given to those who either earn it or steal it from others. Good rulers earn their power through respect and bad rulers earn their power through toxic power games. If we can't be powerful we want to be under the rule of someone we respect. It's degrading to be ruled by those we disrespect. Present day American culture is in such a state of disarray because we have little respect for institutions and each other.
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Something about how we seem to be constantly ruled by a monkey brain view of the world. People are constantly overcomplicating things when the monkey brain understanding of what's going on is usually so much more illuminating than the over-analytical concepts that people are constantly throwing out. This segues into something about the physical underlying material reality of populations and how they are always running the game at the end of the day, even while the media and internet (often using "woke" ideology or otherwise concepts of the ruling class) are doing their best to run interference on the monkey brain.
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Speaking of the above, the material physical differences between population groups and how this affects their interactions and how divorced from this reality we've become in our current age. For example when I am in East Asia, as a large white man I'm often perceived as more threatening than everyone around me. I responded by being deferent and submissive in most situations to respect the people around me. In the Middle East, I'm perceived as more docile and less aggressive than others around me so I respond by being less reserved about my physicality and presence than when I'm in Asia. I think in the US, people have become completely divorced from the reality of group dynamics and people with more dominant/aggressive natures are told by the media that they have no power or money structurally and they don't realize that they have physically literally more power leading to aggression toward weaker populations that is basically an incoherent situation if you took away the messaging of critical theory and the advantages of money and power that afford weak people to be strong in the face of danger.
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The aesthetics of rulers and how it can lead to revolution. Weimar Germany and the Ancient Regime France basically just got too effete and homosexual and led to their being overthrown. Also something something 2010s America.
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Noblesse oblige and mutual respect and the lack of both in American culture
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Why the culture of the rich used to look appealing but increasingly repulses me (Boils down to late 20th century creatives coopting underclass style for decades and then immediately protecting their wealth by disavowing any actual underclass movements that actually emerged ie Trump)
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Men use the physical to protect the ego/mind. Women use the mind to protect the physical. Can also be extrapolated onto most power dynamics? needs to be thought through
Edit to add:
- The cost of labor in rich countries is so high that it makes everything awful. Cost of labor in places like Thailand is so low that food is incredible due to labor intensive practices being used everywhere. I also suspect that less government regulation leads to more competition and innovation in poor countries vs rich ones. I am not an economist so I don't have the skills to address this more broadly but that's my working theory on why Thailand has better food and Turkey has better shopping than many rich countries.
aiislove
2yr ago
what's the use of anyone knowing the Truth if Power can't be moved by it?
I have only read a handful of Yarvin's essays so I can't answer any of your questions as an interpretive response to his work. But in my opinion and experience, to answer this question specifically, the use of anyone knowing Truth is so that you can defend yourself against Power and have an advantage over any power that wants to harm you by defining truth in a way that's different from the material underlying Truth. You may not be able to move Power but you can move yourself. The freedom to understand the actual Truth is empowering in the face of Power.
Watching Power assert its own version of Truth over and over for the past few years has been Orwellian and the only solace I've found is in trying to find people spouting a version of Truth that feels more correct to me (like what I find on this forum.)
aiislove
2yr ago
i know from experience an extraordinary amount of men are somewhat or very misogynistic
I think it's really a projection of men's inner frustrations with themselves and their situation. They want sex, desperately, and they want it from women. They believe if they were more fit or attractive they'd have an easier chance of getting sex from women. They blame themselves for their lack of sex and try to pin the blame on women because it alleviates them from the pain of pinning the blame on the self. This is not born out of misogyny but self hatred. If the man believed the woman/object of his desire would love him back unconditionally and deservedly, he would have not be acting out in ways perceived as misogynistic. The most confident secure men who are sexually desired by the people around him are not misogynistic because they are comfortable with themselves and have no reason to project their self hatred onto women.
In exploring the self-hate, which I know well also (perhaps it's a universal?), I wonder if it is in fact not gendered in it's sense at all.
I'm not sure how to interpret this, it depends on if you're male or female. I think that all men are self hating. Women can also be self hating but they often grow out of it and find meaning through family and relationships at a younger age than men do. Many men grow to an old age and never escape their self loathing, or it can fluctuate throughout their lives based on their condition and perception of their lives.
aiislove
2yr ago
I have learned so much about gay men through looking at straight men, I believe we are wired broadly the same but with some small points of difference. I offered my perspective because if I can learn things from straight people then perhaps straight people can learn something from my experiences as well. I don't think you can fully understand gay men without understanding straight men and vice versa.
aiislove
2yr ago
Also as an aside both men and women are misogynistic, projecting their existential disgust/despair onto woman as the closest to 'life/creation/existence'.
I don't think that both men and women are misogynistic. Rather I think that both men and women are predisposed to hating men due to the essential power structure you outline in paragraph 3 above. If you hate a more powerful person who has power over you, it's righteous and empowering and normal to do so. If you hate someone weaker than you, you are a loser. I am not predisposed to hating women. When I think of my father, I think of him eternally as an adult who subjugated me as a youth, but when I think of my mother I just feel regret for ever having hurt her in any way. Indeed the things I fault my father for are for his weaknesses, not being strong enough, out of this grew my resentment toward him. Toward my mother I would never feel any hatred toward her weakness, to do so would be gruesome, especially as an adult.
As a gay man the only misogyny I can find in myself is a sort of irritation that straight men are attracted to women, but this doesn't really spark a deep seated hatred within me but if anything rather an irritation toward myself that I'm not what a straight man would be attracted to. I'm more predisposed toward hating men and it's downstream of hating myself which I believe all men are predisposed toward. As a young child I was resentful toward women because I imagined they would reject my love but this just made me seek male affection instead, not hate women.
What makes you draw the conclusion that men and women are misogynistic? It's funny that you mention projection in this sentence as I think it's male self-hatred and women's hatred of men that you are projecting onto men and women as misogyny.
aiislove
2yr ago
I teach at a big progressive university and "cancelling" is basically made up and not something that actually happens, and when it does, the administration clamps down on it hard and the cancellers shut up.
Can you please expand on this because I find it hard to believe but maybe I'm just too online.
aiislove
2yr ago
Did you find any forums that you enjoy as much as, or close to as much as, themotte?
aiislove
2yr ago
Most people will try to conform to the values of reddit, if they stick around long enough. Most people aren't committed to sticking to their own ethics and principals when confronted with large groups of people going against them, they'll either not use reddit like you said or use it and have their opinions and actions driven by the values of the group they're interacting with.
aiislove
2yr ago
Hmm, I don't think I've noticed myself or other english speakers having trouble with the r or t/ch/ts sounds but maybe it's something that's more pronounced for people who've spoken Japanese their whole lives and there's a nuance that I'm not aware of. I have noticed that the "ふ" sound is a lot breathier or "h-like" than the way English speakers usually pronounce "fu".
I generally have trouble with vowels more than consonants in all languages, my vowels tend to be really flat (I don't like nasal sounds so when I say "cat" for example, in english, I avoid the nasal a and voice it a bit more like an "ah" sound if that makes sense.) The vowels in Japanese, German and Spanish are all essentially the same though in my mind (disregarding the umlauted ones in German.) The r in Japanese is similar to the "tap r" in Spanish. Sometimes the "u" in Japanese is a bit like the umlauted u (ü) but it seems a bit more of an affect or personal choice rather than common Japanese, I'm not sure
aiislove
2yr ago
I've studied German, Spanish, Japanese and French in school and in immersion (as in, visiting the countries where they're spoken and living for a few months in each.) I agree with you that German is the easiest for English speakers to learn (though Spanish is not very hard either.) Also agree with Japanese being a rather practical language and pronunciation is very easy. I got lost on the kanji too though.
aiislove
2yr ago
That sounds interesting! One of my favorite things to think about is comparing current events to the events leading up to the French Revolution. I'd love to hear if you find any similarities in the emotions illustrated in that book between those times and today.
aiislove
2yr ago
The distinction you make in the two modes of homosexuality in your second paragraph is interesting. It seems to match to a pattern I've noticed among homosexuals myself, where more effeminate gay men tend to have monogamous partners serially, whereas more masculine passing gay men tend to operate in the first relationship style you describe with older/younger males (and also this tends to overlap with triad/poly relationships among gay men much more than the effeminate mode does.)
In my personal experience, growing up, the media I consumed tended to depict gay relationships in the former fem/monogamous mode, so I sort of believed I was meant to operate in that mode as well, but as I grew older I realized I was drawn to the second type of gay relationships much more, which also coincided with my personal behaviors shifting from effeminacy to more masculinity. Or rather my self perception that shifted from a more feminine self image to a more masculine one as I aged.
I think the two modes maybe derive from the psychological concept of self that a gay man can hold: He asks himself, Do I identify more with my effeminacy and need to sort of castrate a man to be in control sexually? Or am I secure enough in my masculinity that I can adopt this other mode of relationships where I am the bull/dad/dominant partner/alpha? This also stems from the fundamental nature of homosexuality making odd compromises necessary. Most gay couples I know with small age gaps tend to grate at each other over time because the fundamental power structure is unbalanced when they are too evenly matched physically, age gap relationships tend to be more stable and longer lasting. The monogamous/effeminate relationships can be interpreted to reflect feminine values (safety seeking, "soft power") and the prison/military sexuality reflects masculine values (pleasure seeking, "hard power"), both deriving from the uncertainty of the homosexual ego as to his particular optimal role in relationships.
There is also a class and culture component to this today, where I see more well to do gay men and men from cities in monogamous/feminine relationship mode and more working class/rural men in more of the older/younger masculine mode.
This also reflects an interesting distinction in Middle Eastern/Islamic culture where homosexuality has traditionally been an age gap relationship, which seems to be relatively tolerated, compared with the basically western/modern invention of the feminine mode of homosexuality coupled with LGBT identity which is seen as forbidden and not tolerated in Middle Eastern cultures.
aiislove
2yr ago
Since no one else is biting, I'll let you know I found this comment amusing. Thank you for making it
aiislove
2yr ago
It seems like China or some other country with less stringent safety standards and a strong desire to outcompete richer countries will be chomping at the bit to adopt autonomous vehicles and other emergent technologies. The US and our allies are too cautious to dip our foot in the water, making us vulnerable. Then again the cost of labor is so much lower in poorer countries that they have less incentive to adopt them, so I don't know.
aiislove
2yr ago
Yes. I agree with everything you said, but you put it more eloquently than I did. Thank you. The entitlement and immaturity of American people is really shocking after you've spent time away from it for a while, from my experience as an American.
When I was in Europe recently, people kept asking me about Karens in America. I didn't understand why everyone was so hung up on Karens, surely Europeans have Karens too? But then I realized that they really don't have the same culture of entitlement that America has, so they largely don't have Karens either. School shooters are basically operating with the same mindset as Karens but with guns instead of screaming at an Apple store employee. People in Europe also seem more secure in their place in society, it would be ridiculous for a rich Frenchwoman to scream at a clerk for example, it's just not done because people have internalized their own class and status in a way that America has yet to solidify.
aiislove
2yr ago
I think your response is actually a good way to illustrate why school shooting makes sense in an American context and why it doesn't in a Russian/rest of the world context. Your summary of school is pretty unemotional, including a list of daily routines and focusing on the drudgeries of your daily life. You just mention girls for one line. When Americans are asked about their highschool experience, especially young men online, you're likely to get a lot more of an emotional response, with a more bombastic tone and a litany of perceived injustices that they experienced. Americans generally want to be the most successful and well liked and popular person in the school and they often can't stand accepting their place somewhere else on the totem pole. Young American men are driven to externalizing their problems, blaming the social situation rather than on themselves or something outside of everyone's control, so to punish the externalized enemies is more logical in the American context than in most countries. Any time the weak are able to be armed it's really no surprise that sometimes they will take the opportunity to try to claw back some dignity through violence.
No no no no no no no. I hate polyester bedding so much that I refuse to travel without two 100% cotton sheets in my suitcase at all times in case I run into anything with more than 0% polyester. I sweat heavily, polyester against my skin feels like sleeping in a wet ziplock bag to me.
The best bedding I ever encountered was an airbnb in Thailand, where the mattress was very big and solid, with a very taut 100% cotton chambray bedspread and a very taut but high loft duvet with the same fabric as the bedspread on top and that was it. It was incredibly comfortable in the humid climate and hot weather there. The tautness of the whole thing made it very comfortable because it's all the extra wrinkles of fabric that trap heat and moisture and make beds miserable. I'm going to buy myself a bed and bedspread and duvet just like what I slept on once I buy a house.
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