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cuwurious_strag_CA


				

				

				
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joined 2022 September 04 21:54:43 UTC

				

User ID: 190

cuwurious_strag_CA


				
				
				

				
2 followers   follows 0 users   joined 2022 September 04 21:54:43 UTC

					

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User ID: 190

the update from kiwifarms - "In my life, there is a family emergency. It has absolutely nothing to do with the forum drama. I cannot and will not elaborate further. There will be a week or more where I am completely unavailable and it is likely the site will go down during this time where I will not be able to bring it up."

"We have one host and I am looking at two more. It is likely that the host will give up too. The two hosts confident they can handle the Kiwi Farms are probably wrong. DDoS-Guard was confident they could handle the Kiwi Farms and said "bring it on" for less than 24 hours."

There isn't any good evidence cloudflare's dropping them was just caused by the claimed false flag post - just bc it was going around on twitter doesn't mean it's the sole cause. There were likely many other comments in the thread that bordered on illegal activity, or seemed so to cloudflare. Kiwi should've aggressively moderated them, for the moment, just strategically. Temporarily killing the keffals thread, while a potentially more effective mitigation, would strike at the heart of kiwifarms' laughing at lolcows/drama purpose - but more aggressive moderation to save the entire thing would have probably been a good move. Not that it would've saved them, maybe just given it a few more days - but for the small chance it did, they should've wordfiltered 'bomb' or something. (this isn't about whether the speech is harmful, rdrama/kiwi policy is fine, please don't accuse me of being a lib for the 50th time, not interesting discussion)

Empires, nations, countries, and large entities "kowtow to their enemies" in specific ways all the time, strategically, for success. Whether as a trick or just to reduce likelihood of death. Every historical figure we see as masculine or honorable or powerful did things to appease others constantly. They also took action to slaughter their enemies, hear the lamentations of their women, etc - and often more latter than former (or often the reverse) - but refusing to make any concessions, even if they help you win overall, is very stupid and means you lose.

Kiwifarms' actions are already constrained in a million ways by conventional morality, the state, and what hosting platforms are allowed to do. So are yours, so are mine, so are everyone's, it will always be "how constrained, and in what way", not "unconstrained". For instance, Josh can't even enter a gentlemen's duel with Prince - extremely dishonorable! Nor can they - legally - break into keffals' internet accounts and get stuff (despite some members either doing so or reporting so on the forum). And they would do the latter a lot more if they could. They already censor dox, putting it behind a login-to-view box - already kowtowing! And they already submit to their enemies in practice by being subject to the "Cathedral" - as josh named in the post - 's legal system, economic system, and society. Staking a post in some minor, specific subconflict that happens to be particularly obvious at the moment is just a strategic error.

kiwifarms.net says: Due to an imminent and emergency threat to human life, the content of this site is blocked from being accessed through Cloudflare’s infrastructure. For more details, please see: https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/

Likely, the causes were both internal and external pressure and specific, recent posts on kiwifarms or elsewhere that cloudflare interpreted to be an "imminent and emergency threat to human life". Kiwifarms should have attempted to reduce outward signs of the latter to keep their site up. It might - or even probably wouldn't - have worked, but is worth doing anyway.

Kiwifarms has no ability to threaten or harm Cloudflare

Some users might argue otherwise - "we're spreading the truth, how disgusting the libs are, they can't let people see it because the regime would collapse". Most kiwis aren't there, it really is just a site for laughing at freaks, but there were a few posts to that effect that got a bunch of positive reactions. Ofc this is ... not entirely wrong, but wrong in every important way there's probably some impact of kiwifarms existing, but not in any simple way like that.

The only right move is to refuse to heel and find someone else

Yeah, if they had somewhere else to go. Josh isn't optimistic, as the recent t.me post shows. "refusing to heel", and having CF take away your site, is still losing. It's much, much worse for both 'laughing at lolcows' and 'spreading how disgusting trans grooming is' than wordfiltering the word 'bomb'.

Kiwifarms has taken hundreds of actions exactly like 'censoring a bit more to survive' over the past decade. Claiming this one is dishonorable ... it's a website for laughing at lolcows. If a bull running at you, you should move out of the way, whether you can shoot it later or not.

"Finding a gun to shoot the bull with" and "not moving out of the way" aren't the same action, at all. The latter doesn't help you win. Just because some meekly let the bull rampage - the answer isn't "letting it hit you in the chest".

Kiwifarms, again

From the telegram, kiwifarms is back up at kiwifarms.top - in addition to the onion address. Their new IP seems to be from orcatech/vanwatech, who host 8kun - 8kun had trouble during the jan 6th hearings.

In a featured post, Josh is locking the threads of keffals and associates, and asking people to leave them alone for the moment. User responses range from "well, that sucks" to "yes, sir" to "probably the best move at the moment". Probably partially cope, but none of them want the farms to go down every two days.

Yesterday a discussion about this pitted "blocking some keffals posts strategically" vs "that's giving into the leviathan, never flinch, it's what they want". Ignoring the political violence detour, josh's probably making the right choice - and probably should've done something like it days ago. I'd still prefer lighter (very strict wordfilter? banning doxxing/anything implying violence or doxxing but allowing any other posts?) restrictions a week ago to banning the thread outright a week ago ... but if that wouldn't have worked, temporarily lock the thread outright might've saved the rest of the site.

Cloudflare wants them gone, and is committed to their existential termination

This doesn't make sense given the way cloudflare acted. Probably Prince genuinely wanted to keep them, and chose to ban them for a variety of complicated (this does not imply good) reasons. I'm suggesting there were ways to influence the contingencies such that kiwi might've survived longer. The long article about "why we wouldn't refuse services" and then immediately after banning for supposed extreme risk isn't compatible with cloudflare "wanting them gone, certainly, entirely", because ... of how long prince kept them when most other companies wouldn't have. they could've just kicked kiwifarms years ago, there've been several such campaigns in the past. Again, this doesn't mean they wouldn't have anyway in practice, no matter what they did, i'm not sure tbh.

Groveling is always the wrong move, even if they can find no other refuge.

can you clarify the context in which you argue this? Groveling is a very useful move for people, organizations, even nations, and has saved many from death - which is why it exists. And "temporarily banning certain words in the thread" (and - not even telling anyone you're doing that) is not groveling in any obvious sense.

It's a collection of thinking, reasoned sadists, who want Kiwifarms gone but more than that want Kiwifarms humiliated and broken

this doesn't make sense at all. cloudflare kept kiwifarms up until a large social media campaign to drop them. and ... "sadists"? what? how are they sadists? "humiliated and broken"?

Even if the libs/cathedral/etc are your mortal enemy in every possible way, that doesn't mean they are "sadists" and "want to humiliate cloudflare in every way because they are sadists".

But like... how is "Drag Kids" even remotely plausibly not grooming

Because at least 95% of people who do "drag kid" shows do not, personally, want to molest the children involved. It may be 'grooming' in the sense that it's grooming to put a kid in violin classes or to 'groom a successor' for a company. It isn't grooming in the sense of manipulating a child into being sexually available. And the latter is a sense, and implication, that the term 'groomer' is primarily used for. Both may, in fact, be bad - just in crucially different ways.

This kind of rhetoric isn't useful, because it just distracts people from what causes kids to become trans, or gay, or whatever. "teachers / drag queens grooming them into being trans/gay/whatever" ... is not a common cause. Maybe /r/egg_irl is.

Same for calling it "child abuse". Child abuse usually means either beating or having sex, or sometimes 'severe psychological neglect'. Having a male kid get in a dress and dance - which can, still, be perverted, degenerate, and disgusting - isn't really child abuse in that sense at all, and calling it so is just distracting people with vaguely relevant but mostly meaningless assertions.

But it "proves too much" - if cloudflare was entirely anti-kiwifarms, they would've folded in 2017, surely?

The progressive leviathan will continue to crush, oppress, and destroy, and there is nothing anyone can do to change it from the inside

there are literally multiple different people in cloudflare. Prince is the CEO and as such probably makes decisions, but he does so for reasons, needs to make his people happy, investors, customers, etc.

You know what won't stop Keffals? Fedposting bomb threats. You know what would stop Keffals? Actually doing it. You know what won't sway Prince? Apologizing, groveling, sniveling, accommodating. You know what would? Imposing costs on him as a person.

Actually killing keffals would ... uh ... not help stop progressives? It'd give them way more reason to fight back, while not materially impacting them at all (he's a random trans streamer popular on twitter). You'd argue that the way to stop christians was showing jesus's body really obviously on the cross, making it crystal clear his hands were bleeding, just in case any peasants missed it. Tell the world about john brown, so they learn from his example!

Sucking off your betters so that they can enjoy the sadistic thrill of watching you squirm unhappily might buying a mypillowbuy you some time, but it will never actually lead to a good outcome for you. Just bite it.

Okay, so you're kicked, then you bite. And what happens to dogs that bite? They get put down. This is the strategy - "this dog is dangerous. he bites when we kick him". Provoke the right, use their fighting back as an excuse to totally destroy them. Biting doesn't stop the progressives. Actually taking power would - killing keffals takes as much power away from progressives as calling them 'racist' does

Why can normal accounts suddenly not spam people? That'd require better spam prevention for non-verified accounts, which you can implement without this change. Doesn't seem related.

that it took Marx's theory of class conflict, and applied it to cultural conflict

What does this mean? It's not marx was the first person to come up with "different cultural groups have conflicts". What specifically from "marx's theory of class conflict" is present in today's cultural conflict that wasn't in any other cultural conflict?

Now, of course they are related in that both are progressive. But the "marxism" part is a total distraction, "gender ideology" is about as marxist as a republican is

If you commanded the US military and they took control of every central corporate office, every think tank, every executive agency, the internet, resisting law enforcement, significant courts, et cetera - either by killing or imprisonment (or just lustration) - then, yes, you win.

If you kill keffals, you don't win. It doesn't do anything, besides getting people mad. Keffals is a twitch streamer who posts about being trans on twitter.

You didn't answer the question. How does making blue checkmarks cost money raise the cost of scams? You can still run scams with nonverified accounts exactly like you do now. Some people, but a small fraction, run scams with stolen verified accounts - those people will just switch to fresh paid verified accounts. But most scams weren't run with verified accounts before this change, and still won't be run with verified accounts after this change. If there's some separate change that makes scamming-without-checkmark much harder, that's fine, but you can do that without $8/mo verification, and $8/mo verification doesn't make that any easier or harder

they usually grow out if it if they can be kept safe for a few years

grouping tiktok tourettes, which is more like 'an emo phase', and being trans together in the 'they usually grow out group' is justified how? Your twitter feed evidence is selected for detransitioners, because they're the best way to make being anti-trans seem like a progressive 'saving the vulnerable girls' narrative as opposed to right-wing.

That really does not make sense. I use twitter a lot, and most of the people I follow do not have checkmarks, and none of them are going to buy it because they are just people who use twitter for fun or on breaks from work or w/e. Random repliers in comments sections still aren't gonna buy the checkmark. And there are already parts of twitter where most people are verified and have a lot of followers ... and they still get piled with scams replying to their comments.

I believe the theory is that once bluechecks are common, anyone without them will be more suspicious

Can you draw out a specific scenario here - what part of twitter, in reply to what accounts, where the scammers are currently using unverified accounts successfully but won't be able to anymore because most users will have bluechecks, as they are more common, so the scammers will stand out? I can't think of a single section of twitter where that will happen. Either all the big people already have checkmarks and their followers do not (and that will either not change or nobody will have checkmarks because people won't pay 100/year for it), or none of the posters or repliers have checkmarks, and that will not change.

Like, "8/mo bluecheck prevents spam" doesn't make sense, at all. Do people just believe it because musk says it will? Do they assume he figured it out?

The idea that we live in an exploitative system, where people are divided into classes, one designated the oppressor, and the other the oppressed.

This is the point - both are progressive, in that both want to liberate the tired masses or oppressed people. But the idea that's specifically "marxist class conflict", as opposed to generic progressivism / universalism, is misleading.

Presumably, republican organizations that aren't the "RNC" would be able to do that? And there are a ton of those.

Yeah, but the median twitter user, even the median twitter user with 50k followers, aren't gonna spend $8/month for the checkmark (although if they did, twitter would get a new massive revenue stream), so it won't have that effect

Clearly "i have a dream" and "girls can freaking do everything" are more wholesome than "racism = prejudice + power". Marxism, however, isn't when you suggest a particular group of people are bad, or that a particular group have to be fought against, or that one particular group is harming another particular group. It isn't even when you do that in a left-wing way. Was the french revolution culturally marxist?

So, what specifically about "racismprejudicepower" and "patriarchy" are more like marxist / class conflict than a generic mix of "progressive" and "not wholesome"?

Imagine if a democrat arrested 20 republicans for possessing an illegal firearm because they misunderstood an ATF statute and the ATF webpage said that particular modification / accessory was legal. And when Rs got mad about it, a democrat said "think on the meta level - from a pure signaling standpoint - if we want to prevent people from knowingly committing gun crimes, we have to arrest people who commit gun crimes, even if they possess a defense.".

This argument doesn't make sense, at all. If voter fraud is a real and massive issue, surely they can find at least 4 people who really did it and arrest them? Er, except it does actually happen, and people are convicted for it! wikipedia shows many convictions. So ... how does this make any sense?

even the median twitter user with 50k followers

Is someone really going to impersonate @joespizzastamfordct? Is that enough for joe to pay 100/month? And a lot of accounts with 10k+ followers are people like crypto or music 'influencers', or just guys who like shitposting. There's no way >20% of twitter accounts with 10k+ followers will buy the blue checkmark - which means that it'll not be effective in reducing spam.

One specific criticism:

"I walked down a street with 20 cars, each one with windows smashed - there's no amount of law enforcement funding that could prevent this". The standard hard-right, or moldbug, response is just "that's not true, just put all the people doing that in jail for a long time, that'd stop it" - which is true! It might not be feasible under the constraint of 'we want to be kind to the poor battered homeless addicts', but that's the thing preventing it, not funding.

Also was interesting he explicitly noted an influence of "fascist philsophy" and the "dissident right" - not that I mind, but it's interesting if that's becoming more common among "conservative / centrist" internet people. (obviously, he follows with a "and I don't want either the far-left or far-right to be in power", and means it)

No amount of political or social influence can stop the sheer mind-numbing fear of death that comes from a devoted and violent enemy

yeah, and the same applies to the right, except worse because the progs control the state or whatever, so they just use the entire power of the state as the justified violent enemy to suppress the right. Guerilla movements only work because there isn't will to violently suppress them. And if rightoids start suicide bombing innocent trans people, there will be will to suppress them!

Not sure what the point of this post is

That "race determines culture" is just wrong, compare the culture of any race X000 years ago to that of any race today. Vikings to middle managers, aztec blood sacrifices to gardeners, japanese empire to efficient japanese manufacturing systems. Both the american upper-class, intellectuals and scientists and managers, contains a lot of indians, middle easterners, asians, jews, and whites - as do the lower classes - and the culture of the upper-class indians sure is closer to that of the upper-class whites or jews than the lower class indians.

Taking the federalist (please don't link to political/general news websites about science/study stuff, they're universally terrible sources) at their word for the moment - "[...] within a week of receiving the “Dose 2 Primary Series” of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, there were 14 verified cases of myocarditis or pericarditis among the 102,091 males aged 16-17 who got the shot. Among the nearly 206,000 12-15-year-old males [...] 31 cases were confirmed within a week". This comes out to a rate of 1.3/10k for 16-17 and 1.5/10k for 12-15. Using a relatively recent table of the age distribution for approximate numbers, and just multiplying that number by the 10-19 population, and just assuming they all got vaccinated, gives 3135 cases of (using their claims) vaccine-induced myocarditis or pericarditis.

From another study - In COVID-19 mRNA-vaccine-associated myocarditis, >90% of patients will functionally completely recover, usually after a chest pain syndrome (see Supplementary information). To date, only eight deaths owing to COVID-19 mRNA-vaccine-associated myocarditis have been reported (>99% survival) (see Supplementary information)." (1-.99) * 3135 = 35 deaths. Which is less than the number of covid deaths in the '5-18' age group (which i'm guessing is mostly the 10-19 age group) - 910 - by quite a bit. The supplementary information was just a list of case reports or studies, and the ones that include fatalities were: (i may not be interpreting this correctly fyi) were "27yo male with trisomy 21", "22yo male with fatal outcome, from Korea", "351 cases (8 fatal", "62yo female with fatal outcome", "42yo male (fatal)", "Case series of 136; one fatal; rate 150/million after 2nd dose in 16-19yo males, in Israel", "70yo female with fatal outcome", "18 post vaccine deaths ... 1 myocarditis", etc, and a many more studies with no deaths. I'm not sure where precisely they got 99% from given the SI is just a big list of references but if you add up all of the studies they present, 99% seems accurate. There are also a bunch of studies evaluating risk/benefit for covid vaccines for adolescents, most claiming it's worth it but a few claiming it is not. (in practice, i'm not sure it matters either way, given the very low risk of both covid harm and myocarditis harm. also, covid itself causes myocarditis, probably at a similar rate to the vaccine in young people, but idk). There's also a funny withdrawn article, "Case series of 32 patients in Canada. Although case series was clinically valid, initial estimate of rate was inflated by using denominator of 30,000 instead of 800,000".

It also has "By contrast, the incidence of COVID-19-associated cardiac injury or myocarditis is estimated to be 100 times higher (1,000–1,400 per 100,000 people with COVID-19) than that of COVID-19 mRNA-vaccine-related myocarditis7. Moreover, in contrast to the overall mild presentation and good outcome of vaccine-associated myocarditis, COVID-19 is associated with a major risk of cardiovascular complications8. Among patients with COVID-19, 10% of outpatients and 40% of hospitalized patients have clinically significant myocardial injury, mostly in the absence of clinically significant coronary artery disease8. Advanced age and pre-existing comorbidities (obesity, diabetes mellitus, hypertension or renal dysfunction) are the main predisposing factors for cardiovascular complications in patients with COVID-19".

For people under 20 specifically - for myocarditis from covid infections - here we get "Results: For the 12-17-year-old male cohort, 6/6,846 (0.09%) patients developed myocarditis overall, with an adjusted rate per million of 450 cases (Wilson score interval 206 - 982). For the 12-15 and 16-19 male age groups, the adjusted rates per million were 601 (257 - 1,406) and 561 (240 - 1,313).". This is higher than even your estimate of 1.5/10k. Now, this is comparing 'covid cases' to 'covid vaccination recipients' - which obviously aren't the same, if only 1 in 100 adolescents ever got covid (or, if they all got covid but only the severe cases were counted as 'cases'), that'd mean the vaccine was worse (again assuming those numbers are fine). But they probably are given the large-scale testing etc.

I haven't triple-checked all the math estimate stuff and very likely one or more of them is wrong. But this isn't "mass murder". Healthcare has plenty of disgusting parts - giving obese people pills mildly improving QALYs while they're fattened by well advertised corn, wheat, sugar, and oil paste, unnecessary surgeries, spending tens of thousands on cancer treatments that extend life by like a month, or not at all, pumping all sorts of treatments into barely alive old people to prolong their painful, pointless end, etc. This isn't one, afaict, the effectiveness of vaccines compared to their cost (one shot per year vs one pill per day?) is an outlier for most of medicine.

right, and if you manage to convince the US military to do a right-wing coup (not possible itself), it'd be fine. but the point is - you suicide bomb, the state imprisons you and your friends, you don't get special treatment like hitler did or the communists did because nobody in the state wants to protect you, you lose. Nothing is accomplished - being gay was illegal 100 years ago and they still fought for it, a few terrorist threats aren't quite enough to win here. what's the point?

Given that twitter is headquartered in the US, china censoring 'discourse' in the US would be a defcon 1 national security event and something the media of all colors would be all over, elon seeming to be a patriotic american, and china having a similar level of 'influence' with many other executives and companies in america due to the very deep trade ties between us, I don't think this is a large threat. It probably won't happen - and even if it did, the response from the US, including the "sjw bluechecks", would be significant.