disk_interested
incel philosopher king
User ID: 4005
Depends, did she have a hoe phase and is now settling down? Is she currently in her hoe phase? (ghosted, r.i.p.) Is she a loyal serial dater with less than 5-10 body count? Is she inexperienced/a virgin? Is she a divorced mom of 3?
Women control the pace and progress of dating, so turn down her advances at your own risk.
edit: I personally try to calibrate my behavior based on the girl I'm dating, and based on my prior experience while simultaneously being the active partner in the dance of seduction. It takes supreme mind reading skills, but my experience so far has been easily replicated. And it converges with the body language/human sexuality research (Love Signals - David Givens is a well-sourced intro to this field), and the individual methods that "pickup artists" shill on youtube. Seems seduction is both a science and an art
disk_interested
22d ago
You've convinced me that I need to reread 1984 as an adult incel
I know of no girls who, even if they came on to a guy in those circumstances, would object to his saying "Hey, could we wait a little? I really like you and I want to spend more time getting to know you before we get physical."
For me, it's the opposite. The dating market in (most?) western metro areas is extremely fast paced. Many of my friends have opted out of this market, but what's the alternative? Political/strategic marriage? Never marrying?
I don't see any way around it: if you want to select your spouse, you need to play the dating game.
I haven't heard a Zoomer say they didn't want to date because rape accusations, just that dating feels awkward, is a PITA and they worry the girl would be judging them.
The "awkwardness" comes from the heavy cloud of social and legal consequences men face for making just one wrong move on a date. The longhouse taught us that we need explicit verbal consent at every step of foreplay.
Men overwhelmingly make the first sexual move (and then make 3-5 moves for every 1 his female partner makes). This roughly 4:1 sexual dance is preferred by the overwhelming majority of men and women. Add to this the lingering social stigma for women to be viewed as sluts for making the first move or evening out the 4:1 ratio, and many possible romances fizzle out on the first date. Modern dating markets are so flooded with men on the supply side of the equation, that women rarely invest their time in a second date for "no chemistry" suitors.
Men have a perfectly rational fear here: the bar for what counts as felony sex assault has been lowered to "he made me uncomfortable when escalating (but I didn't say no)" from "he overpowered me after I said no." The legacy definition is extremely clear, but this new grey zone of flirting/foreplay is unmapped by normies. Pickup artists have been studying this for decades, but there's no universally agreed upon set of rules. On the other hand, insing women ignorant of the territory have come up with a reasonably self-consistent set of rules around dating (chad is exempt). Insings have also taken over the disciplinary boards in universities and some district attorneys offices' with these new rules.
The existential threats to young men who actually absorbed some of the "don't rape" lessons in grade school include:
- Getting arrested
- Losing essentially all your friends post-allegation
- $30,000-60,000 on a defense lawyer for trial
- 3-5 years in prison
- Possibility of getting murdered in prison
- Permanently losing your career and social life as a REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER
All of these life-altering consequences may be applied over something relatively inconsequential as fingerbanging a drunk girl who verbally asks her date to "fuck me" over the course of about 5 minutes
I may update this post with more examples, but the first link took a massive federal lawsuit to reverse Ben Feibleman's expulsion from Columbia. I doubt his legal win has done much to repair his social life.
I'm not advocating for a retvrn to the 50s-70s dating rules (which were much clearer), but something must change on a cultural and legal level here. This is a primary variable in demographic collapse, although relatively unstudied. Men and women simply can't agree on the rules of flirting. Women have a near total legal control over sex, whereas men have near total physical control. A non-trivial number of men and women will refuse to compromise on this issue, at the cost of marriages and future children.
True, I haven't turned down a woman's sexual advances so far.
They have a leads problem. They can't get dates. My bachelor friends average one date every 3-6 months. These are normie guys in their late 20s; none are ugly.
This is an exaggeration. My friends, and young men in general, are not giving up completely. They are just adjusting their strategy to a much more passive approach to dating. Almost like what you're describing. They (against my advice) let the woman their dating make all the first moves, which sometimes results in no moves at all.
These guys are all jerking off to porn, and have been for years. They don't approach attractive women in real life, and they're not trying to eek out an optimized hinge profile to get in the top elo rankings. I wouldn't say they've given up, but they're barely trying to play a heavily rigged game.
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