fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
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User ID: 3415
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
there are no elite groups in America that actually want to limit immigration
Thank you for speaking the core truth
Trump is very conveniently ignoring the many illegal migrant farmers that keep food prices down
He's not just ignoring them, he's telling us (and them, and the Americans who pay them) he's ignoring them. Also hotel workers for some weird reason... maybe because he owns hotels? Lmao
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Comments on Twitter you don't like is quite literally the definition of "algorithmic rage bait slop" because the Twitter algorithm specifically shows you things that'll make you unhappy because that makes you engage more.
If you take the opinions of a clown (liberal cuck? He's actually pathetic) like Patton Oswalt you are being rage baited.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
one of your trantifa insurrectionists trying to kill his family over it?
I have no connection, affiliation, or agreement with whatever portmanteau of trans(?) and Antifa you made here. I find both of those groups insufferable.
I don't understand your quote/allegory of my words to be honest.
As does your eliding that, per your own link, immigration is still Trump's best polling policy.
That has nothing to do with my thesis, which is that optics (perception) of ICE is horrible, and it's clearly shown by the fact his approval on immigration, relative to earlier, has been dropping.
Just because he's even more underwater on his other awful ideas doesn't challenge this.
A solid majority of Americans still want every illegal deported
Yes they do, which is fine, I don't blame them, but they're clearly not thrilled with how it's happening WHICH IS LITERALLY THE OPTICS THING LMFAO
Also as an aside but it's just so blatantly clear they don't actually want to "solve" immigration because as stated infinity times, they're not taking any action to make employers use e-verify more and they're EXPLICITLY AND DELIBERATELY not going after hotels or farms, which are two of the biggest low hanging fruit for tons of illegal immigrants in obvious places.
If they wanted to, they would, and they aren't, so they don't.
This entire forum is so allergic to admitting this. If they actually wanted to address immigration, they'd punish the American citizens who give illegal immigrants money to do jobs. THE ILLEGALS ARE HERE BECAUSE YOU PAY THEM. Just go after the people who pay them, it's that simple. Again, this forum is wildly allergic to admitting that.
When people tell me it exists, I like taking a look.
I guess I'm just not sure how to define or quantify a fuzzy object like "optics" which by nature is opinion based, without pointing at measures of people's opinions.
Also on a real human level, they're just obviously bad? Partisanship aside can we not agree that dudes in face coverings abducting people and sending some of them to 3rd world prisons run by dictators is really fucking off-putting?
To be honest, I actually feel like you're being willfully ignorant here. When people in this thread say "Optics" they obviously mean "the public perception or appearance of an action, decision, or policy. How it looks rather than what it is."
Perception is everything here, and polls measure perception/opinion.
Why are polls a lame argument?
The Economist is generally regarded as a reliable source, and Nate Silver is a very talented pollster, so it is highly likely these pills are a real indication of how the American people feel. If you have a different hypothesis as to how the American people feel, you should present it.
By the way, did you just type out the same 2-3 paragraphs in 3 different comments? Are you ok?
I'm pretty sure I'm responding to 3 different people, so I wanted to make sure they all saw the stats that back my hypothesis. Copy and pasted so it was pretty easy, but I appreciate you checking.
What are the clear misdeeds of the current ICE offensive?
From my comment, quoting the comment above.
Masked and armed bouncers dragging people away at gunpoint.
There are documented cases of people being deported to random nations, a few people have been made deliberately hard to find (from public tracking, limiting a family's visibility into where a loved one is)
Breaking a guy's leg and holding him in a hospital for 37 days without any charges after signing him in with a fake name.
Blue tribe emotions are not a reasonable guide to material reality.
Quite literally half of the country hates something and you live in a democracy so you unfortunately don't get to not care lol.
You can tell the optics suck because the economist shows his approval on immigration is down to -10% now versus +10% in January. Nate Silver shows him going from ~+9% to -4% with now (just) over 50% disapproval.
This was an incredibly popular electoral issue. He crushed the election on it. Now he's underwater on it. I wonder why???
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I don't really understand what your comparison is here. I also don't care about whatever algorithmic rage bait slop event you're talking about. The Republicans shit their pants once about Obama wearing a tan suit. Does that mean all Republican concerns are now invalid?
The optics suck, you can tell they suck because they're terrible. You can tell they suck because people are shooting at ICE officers. You can tell they suck because city mayor's think they'll score political points by making it hard for ICE agents to do their jobs.
You can tell the optics suck because the economist shows his approval on immigration is down to -10% now versus +10% in January. Nate Silver shows him going from ~+9% to -4% with now (just) over 50% disapproval.
This was an incredibly popular electoral issue. He crushed the election on it. Now he's underwater on it. I wonder why???
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
For one, I don't see why you need any of that evidence. Optics aren't even about truth, it's OPTICS. I'm not taking a stance on if ICE is too cruel, or if the pro/anti ICE narrative is more true I'm saying that ICE's optics as an organization are not good. As in, ICE looks bad to many Americans.
The optics suck, you can tell they suck because they're terrible. You can tell they suck because people are shooting at ICE officers. You can tell they suck because city mayor's think they'll score political points by making it hard for ICE agents to do their jobs.
You can tell the optics suck because the economist shows his approval on immigration is down to -10% now versus +10% in January. Nate Silver shows him going from ~+9% to -4% with now (just) over 50% disapproval.
This was an incredibly popular electoral issue. He crushed the election on it. Now he's underwater on it. I wonder why???
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
The price of farm labor will exceed the price people are willing to pay for the food and the farm will go under
This is what happens. Western wage demands and a global food market cannot work together, full stop.
America could import a ton more food, every agricultural exporting country would love to sell more avocados to America.
America doesn't want to give up food security, which is the right choice.
So then you can:
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tariff food imports until for prices rise such that the wage cost can be met
-
go full socialism and subsidize farmers even harder than the USA already does to make up the wage cost without impacting food prices which would be hilariously expensive
If the automation existed it would already be in use all over the world
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
there is no reason to believe that any other plausible method would deliver better results.
You don't even need e-verify
Just go after employers! Fine the shit out of people who knowingly use illegal labour. Imprison them! They're basically traitors to you anyway right? They're aiding and abetting these illegal immigrants. THE IMMIGRANTS DON'T COME TO THE USA FOR THE WEATHER, THEY COME BECAUSE AMERICANS PAY THEM MONEY FOR THEIR LABOUR.
I know two sectors that use HUGE amounts of illegal labour, hotels and farmers! Just go after them! Fish in a barrel.
Direct quote for you, by Trump:
“But you know, when you go into a farm and you set somebody working with them for nine years doing this kind of work, which is hard work to do and a lot of people aren’t going to do it, and you end up destroying a farmer because you took all the people away — it’s a problem. You know, I’m on both sides of the thing. I’m the strongest immigration guy that there’s ever been, but I’m also the strongest farmer guy that there’s ever been, and that includes also hotels and, you know, places where people work, a certain group of people work,”
The segue to hotels is hilarious
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I dont think there is much evidence supporting this assertion
Yes there is???!
Masked and armed bouncers dragging people away at gunpoint has horrible optics.
This is happening, and the optics do suck. You can tell they suck because people hate and fear ICE officers in a way they didn't a year ago.
There are documented cases of people being deported to random nations, a few people have been disappeared (from public tracking, limiting a family's visibility into where a loved one is)
This happened, and the optics are so bad
and there's a general allergy to due process.
This has been happening.
Why are you in dental
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Name one instance where someone on the right engaged in violence or violent rhetoric and Trump offered nothing but a full-throated, unequivocal condemnation. Name one.
Looking forward to this, great post.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
The Internet use patterns that 90% of young men want to keep private involve cooming rather than intellectual heresy.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Reddit =/= Reddit commentators amusingly, given the stats on commenting vs lurking
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
March the whole family against a wall and shoot them all, yes including the evil fascist breeding babies
Everyone in this thread is acting like that is indeed what he said.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
He called for killing his toddlers.
It's implied, but never explicitly proven he did. The people who leaked this were deliberate with what they showed us. If he said that explicitly, wouldn't they have leaked that too?
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
He did literally open his post with "Yes, Democrats Really Do Want You Dead" complete with capitalized words and bolding.
I have read it, and in the just under 2 years since he posted it, red-tribers / white people aren't being pogrom'd as far as I can tell. There also isn't a mass emigration from the USA to other countries as red-tribers / white people escape random acts of violence.
making it clear you hate a class of people, through rhetoric and through occasional targeted violence.
When is this happening?
The 4 things he linked to in his comment above are:
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Israel / Palestine, which is a place with a very very long history of serious violence and war. Also notably not the USA.
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A story about a place called "Rosedale" in Texas in the 1970s, which I guess is a cautionary tale but also, isn't very relevant to today?
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The Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal, which is pretty fucked up and a huge black mark on progressives. But again it's pretty hard to spin this as a pogrom. Also not in the USA / has nothing to do with Democrats.
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An article from "The Root" which is a trash website full of stupid people that write inflammatory shit for clicks. I am unhappy I just gave them a page view by clicking on this link.
I really don't find his argument convincing at all. Where is the contemporary USA evidence?
and at best straight up leave.
I guess I should have said "ethnic cleansing" instead of "genocide". Although frankly I kind of find the phrase "ethnic cleansing" to be a cop-out term governments use when they don't want to put boots on the ground somewhere that's looking real genocidal.
It kind of feels similar to the stupid word games of "its not racism against white people, it's just racial prejudice". Like congratulations, you (not you Whining Coil) made up a new word, you're still a massive asshole for being racially prejudiced/not intervening in the ethnic cleansing where children are being murdered.
Anyway, on pogroms, if my government was tacitly allowing low level violence against me and my people I'd feel rather genocided and would be absolutely attempting to leave immediately far away lest it get worse. Which then kind of makes it ethnic cleansing if I get the hell out of the area.
Arguably you see it already in many Democrat run cities.
What?
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I am a little dissatisfied with your implication that he probably didn't say anything bad about her kids
My assumption is that if he did, it would have leaked. As whoever leaked obviously wanted to damage his reputation, and that would me maximally reputation damaging. Therefore, if it existed, we'd be seeing it right now. The photos in that tweet are cropped and presented without timestamps, which is a deliberate choice. So if they're narrative shaping, why wouldn't they include it?
Fair points that it may be a follow up from a verbal conversation, but given the limited context presented to us I don't think I can jump to "he wants to hurt their kids".
I think there is enough to say this person should be canceled out of the political system entirely
Yes
the condemnations I'm seeing are not particularly strong
This is bad and embarrassing for Dems
the comments sections are justifying him, saying that he's far better than the opposing side
I've said my piece on the usefulness of internet comments. That said, republican politicians do have a shitty track record about saying fucked up shit about their out-groups, so to borrow a reddit phrase, "everyone here is the asshole".
As a concerned onlooker, I wish your country would stop flicking each other's nipples and wake the fuck up to the real issues, which are China, the coming wave of climate refuges, and the existing tidal wave of unstainable old people pensions.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
The progressives have a pretty astounding stranglehold on the culture in a lot of places
I hate it, that's why I am here!
it's pretty scary if the sites where they're dominant start to turn violent.
I am worried about this, just not "they're going to start rounding up red-tribers any day now" worried.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
the free AI detectors don't ping
FYI they are really bad if I recall correctly. Although they are improving.
The ones in this paper did well though, but they may be paid.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I'm not saying it's meaningless, I am just saying that internet commentators are not a representative sample.
In my experience as a Canadian living in Toronto, the Toronto/Ontario/Canada subreddits are all wildly out of touch with the median citizen who lives in any of those three areas. This is most evident in the sentiment towards elected officials versus their electoral results.
By some quick math I did a few years ago, /r/Toronto actually has one of the highest "# of subreddit subscribers"/"city population" ratios in the Western world, and yet literally any comment section in /r/Toronto is laughably out of touch with the views held by the median human who lives in Toronto.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
I would never vote for him after these comments. They are gross and inappropriate, but in my opinion do not meet the standard of "inciting genocide (what a pogrom is)" or "wanting all republicans dead".
If he did in fact say those children should die, he should be punished by either legal ethics standards boards, the Democratic party, the law, or all of the above.
I am suspicious about what exactly he said regarding children, given that if he said something spicy, you'd think it would have been leaked like these other texts? I am assuming whoever leaked this selected only the snippets that made him look the worst. So I am weary of conjecture here.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Responded to you in a different comment but fair enough. In my first read I was just looking for direct calls to violence in his texts, so gross quips about "pissing on their graves" didn't really meet the bar for "inciting violence" in my opinion.
I am concerned about his references to their children though. That is too far. Although weird that it's not included in the leak if he did say thing about them, because that would be way better leak than this is currently.
fmac
Ask me about bike lanes
1yr ago
Sorry I was looking for / focusing on calls for violence specifically, I got rather anchored on the "Yes, Democrats Really Do Want You Dead" and "This is how Pogroms work."
I think the rest of his comments are in extremely poor taste, but I don't think saying gross things is comparable to inciting basically genocide. I wouldn't vote for someone who says these things, but saying "I'd piss on someone's grave" =/= "we should organize mob attacks on Republican communities".
The fact he mentioned their kids is heinous though, it's weird that if he was wishing harm/death on those children it wasn't included in the screenshots as that would be a much more salacious leak. If he was threatening children I hope he is sued, potentially disbarred(??) etc.
I really thought this was the whole point of this thread / argument but everyone really loves to conflate the two
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