You said "provably infected" (in your earlier post), not me. I'm happy to stipulate that any evidence that could prove the infection status of the lab animals at WIV (in either direction) has been lost.
They were "provably infected" by coronavirus and it is proven by loads of research on that published by WIV. You shifted the goalpost that there is no proof of animals in the lab being infected by this specific SARS-CoV-2 strain. I agree, there is no proof mostly due to purposeful destruction of data and samples. On the other hand there is also no proof of any animal infected by any coronavirus in some mystical smuggler/breeder supply chain leading to Wuhan needed for zoonotic origin. But the lab leak at least has the proof of tens of thousands of animals in cages living for decade+ a few miles down the road being provably infected by coronavirus infections and experimnented on. Nothing even close to such a proof exists for zoonotic origin, there is no animal reservoir, no causal link, no breeder farm identified. There is nothing.
Your response is isolated demands for rigour and (entirely plausibly) slinging allegations of dishonesty at the Red Chinese authorities.
Quite to the contrary. The zoonotic origin story has the same problem that you presented - there is no direct ancestor found anywhere in the wild. It was not found near Wuhan or anywhere else. The distance toward COVID-19 strains require quite a leap. So this fact does not save zoonotic origin. So you require rigorous proof of plausible research in biolab that provably produced the exact SARS-CoV-2 strain of the virus. And lack of evidence is evidence of absence. But you do not require the same evidence for zoonotic origin, which should leave massive trail up until it reached Wuhan market from either Laos or Yunnan or some other unknown bat cave thousand miles and decades of natural mutations away from what was produced in form of two lineages of SARS-CoV-2. That is isolated demand for rigor.
Also I am not slinging "allegations" but facts about Red Chinese authorities. They refused to cooperate, provide data, samples or anything. In fact they provably slaughtered and removed all animals on the market, bleached the whole area and never presented any animal sample from lab to the public, scrubbed the WIV database and more. How is that an allegation? You yourself agree by saying that:
As you point out, the Red Chinese were destroying both potential evidence that could have supported wet market zoonotic spread and potential evidence that could have supported lab leak. This is not surprising, as the official Chicom position at the time the evidence was destroyed (being enforced inside China with the usual Chicom techniques of truth suppression) was that the virus originated outside China.
So yes, Red Chinese authorities are purposefully obtuse and dishonest. You say that nobody coming forth from the lab is implausible, which makes you discount Lab Leak angle as unlikely conspiracy - so again absence of evidence is evidence of absence. But I can do the same for zoonotic origin: out of the whole conspiracy chain of wildlife smugglers, breeders, market employees and customers - not one person was overcome by conscience to say that they in fact had smuggled a bat from Laos together in cage with a racoon dog which created the pandemic? In fact this chain was broken by Chinese Authorities who could have tested animals, focused on specific stall and investigate the whole supply chain, but this time they scrubbed all the evidence. This is not what happened in the past outbreaks where zoonotic origin was proven to an animal held in a specific hotel room in Hong Kong in SARS outbreak in 2002-3 or camel virus reservoir for MERS 2012. Additionally, unlike Lab personnel who are all vetted and gagged by contracts and career or criminal charges, the zoonotic origin this is an operation of ordinary people and we do not have a single peep about this massive smuggling/breeding operation delivering dangerous infected animals for 1000 miles over to Wuhan. Not even somebody talking to his sister who talked to her boyfriend to leak it? Why is that absence of evidence not a kill shot against zoonotic origin?
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They were "provably infected" by coronavirus and it is proven by loads of research on that published by WIV. You shifted the goalpost that there is no proof of animals in the lab being infected by this specific SARS-CoV-2 strain. I agree, there is no proof mostly due to purposeful destruction of data and samples. On the other hand there is also no proof of any animal infected by any coronavirus in some mystical smuggler/breeder supply chain leading to Wuhan needed for zoonotic origin. But the lab leak at least has the proof of tens of thousands of animals in cages living for decade+ a few miles down the road being provably infected by coronavirus infections and experimnented on. Nothing even close to such a proof exists for zoonotic origin, there is no animal reservoir, no causal link, no breeder farm identified. There is nothing.
Quite to the contrary. The zoonotic origin story has the same problem that you presented - there is no direct ancestor found anywhere in the wild. It was not found near Wuhan or anywhere else. The distance toward COVID-19 strains require quite a leap. So this fact does not save zoonotic origin. So you require rigorous proof of plausible research in biolab that provably produced the exact SARS-CoV-2 strain of the virus. And lack of evidence is evidence of absence. But you do not require the same evidence for zoonotic origin, which should leave massive trail up until it reached Wuhan market from either Laos or Yunnan or some other unknown bat cave thousand miles and decades of natural mutations away from what was produced in form of two lineages of SARS-CoV-2. That is isolated demand for rigor.
Also I am not slinging "allegations" but facts about Red Chinese authorities. They refused to cooperate, provide data, samples or anything. In fact they provably slaughtered and removed all animals on the market, bleached the whole area and never presented any animal sample from lab to the public, scrubbed the WIV database and more. How is that an allegation? You yourself agree by saying that:
So yes, Red Chinese authorities are purposefully obtuse and dishonest. You say that nobody coming forth from the lab is implausible, which makes you discount Lab Leak angle as unlikely conspiracy - so again absence of evidence is evidence of absence. But I can do the same for zoonotic origin: out of the whole conspiracy chain of wildlife smugglers, breeders, market employees and customers - not one person was overcome by conscience to say that they in fact had smuggled a bat from Laos together in cage with a racoon dog which created the pandemic? In fact this chain was broken by Chinese Authorities who could have tested animals, focused on specific stall and investigate the whole supply chain, but this time they scrubbed all the evidence. This is not what happened in the past outbreaks where zoonotic origin was proven to an animal held in a specific hotel room in Hong Kong in SARS outbreak in 2002-3 or camel virus reservoir for MERS 2012. Additionally, unlike Lab personnel who are all vetted and gagged by contracts and career or criminal charges, the zoonotic origin this is an operation of ordinary people and we do not have a single peep about this massive smuggling/breeding operation delivering dangerous infected animals for 1000 miles over to Wuhan. Not even somebody talking to his sister who talked to her boyfriend to leak it? Why is that absence of evidence not a kill shot against zoonotic origin?
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