gog
8mo ago
The modern public education system is an expensive daycare at best and a Potemkin village at worst. Kids lack any internal or external motivation to learn, discipline is basically forbidden, and any mark under 85 is cause for meetings and interventions and BS special ed plans. Many teachers don't think this is a problem- school should be a "safe space" for children (though to what end, they usually can't say). Any teacher that does think it's a problem is either too cowardly (or agreeable, same thing) to fight the decline or too attached to the sweet, sweet benefits of the job (even sweeter in Canada!) to die on this hill. They console themselves, however, by muttering about how "these kids are in for a big surprise when they get to university." Well, ti appears that there will be no surprise:
At elite US universities, huge numbers of students (20-30%) receive accommodations for intellectual "disabilities." Since these schools are much more selective than other schools, and intellectual disabilities make you worse at school, we should expect to find even higher rates of disability at less selective schools, but we don't. So either the upper class families are fortunate enough to have the means to ensure their kids get the help they need while less affluent students are struggling unassisted, or they're gaming the system to inflate their marks when the most common grade is already A. You know in your heart which one it is.
The main "accommodation" these kids get, at university and K-12, is extra time. This almost makes sense on final exams, but day-to-day they also demand it. The problem is that there is no "extra" time; there is only one time and it is limited. "Extra time" on anything is an illusion, because you are taking your own time from something else. This is not just a metaphysical quibble- parents will demand that a kid get extra time (which usually means double time) on anything the kid finds difficult. Since time cannot be created, a kid who finds the material difficult will take an entire class period for a short quiz, thereby missing a bunch of material and falling behind, ensuring that he finds future material difficult as well and requiring even more "extra" time. Parents rarely understand this, even when it is explained to them.
Kids and parents universally defend this practice because it allows the kid to do their "best work." The assumption is that if other kids do their best work in half an hour, but your kid needs an hour to do his best work, that's academic justice. We're here to find the kids best work, after all (this is never questioned and any discussion of speed is not even understood, let alone allowed). The "best work" that this system produces is never good- work expands to fill the time allotted, so if you were going to write a C+ essay in an hour, and now you have two hours, it now takes you twice as long to be just as mediocre. Other absurdities abound, which I've mentioned before, like the "separate exam space" having more kids in it than the regular exam room or kids getting the reading test read to them, but the time thing is the biggest one.
Goodhart's Law is driving all of this. We used to use marks as the best available way to measure how smart or educated kids were, but then it started getting gamed and now marks are totally meaningless (note that parents and Good Teachers will assert, in the same sentence, that marks are not a full measure of a person's worth/intelligence/etc and also demand these accommodations so that the kid's marks are propped up because the kid is good or valuable). A colleague just had a meeting about a kid failing Gr 11 advanced math. It's too late to drop the course. He reassured her that if she takes Gr 12 basic math the kid will retroactively receive a Gr 11 basic math credit, and her graduation will not be threatened. The mother freaked because this would still leave "Gr 11 advanced math: 44%" on the kid's transcript, as though there were a situation where you needed a good gr 11 advanced math mark but didn't actually have to be good at math (in Canada, there is no such situation- any scholarship or admission that would have this kind of demand is going to the kids in Gr 12 advanced math anyway).
These are pretty standard complaints about the ed system, but now lets talk about The Last Psychiatrist. His bugbear was narcissism. Not the swaggering bravado we normally associate with narcissism, but insecure or compensatory narcissism that causes empty people to act out a character rather than to be their authentic selves (they don't have authentic selves in the first place). "Main character syndrome" probably comes from his writing, though I don't think he used that exact phrase. So a narcissistic man would demand that his wife get breast implants, not because he loves busty women, but because cool dudes like him have wives with huge knockers. He is trying to shape everything but himself to project the identity he wishes he had. It's normal for kids to try out different identities, get tough-guy tatoos or act like Taylor Swift, but well-adjusted people grow out of it and start actually doing things, and the things they do become the basis for stable identities. TLP alleged that people in the West have stopped growing out of it and are trapped in juvenile psychology where identity is totally decoupled from action. So you can go every day to your actuary job and estimate health insurance risk and go home and scroll Twitter all night, but since you own a guitar you actually think of yourself as a musician. This has all kinds of bad effects on you personally, on the people around you, and on society. Read his oeuvre to find out more.
This kind of narcissism is a natural, though regrettable, phase of growing up, and it's bad if you don't grow out of it. It's even worse, though, if all the adults around you are actively inculcating it in you. Accommodations are the main way society is doing this. "Marks are just one way of evaluating people" is perfectly true. If you really believe this, you won't be that worried about your kid getting a 60, unless he's slacking off, in which case you chain him up for a while until he gets his act together. But if you tell your kid, and doctors tell your kid, and the school tells your kid, and TikTok tells your kid (this, to your kid, is tantamount to the entire world telling him), that actually he's really smart even though he doesn't do anything smart, and that actually what needs to happen is for the world around him to change (=accommodations) then you are encouraging a mindset which life should actually be beating out of him.
People around here often object to The Last Psychiatrist's style, Sadly Porn is weird, etc, but he dropped the shtick and wrote a more obviously serious book called Watch What You Hear, about dream interpretation in the Odyssey. The big takeaway in the book (for psychology) is that insecure narcissists demand omnipotence from others and detest omniscience. "Omniscience" here means seeing clearly what your problems are, seeing through you. For example, a guy who thinks of himself as a woman has his whole world rocked if someone treats him like a man, or a girlboss feminist has a breakdown if someone suggests that all she wants is a baby. Instead, narcissists demand omnipotence- the trans guy wants the world rearranged to validate his feminine identity and the girlboss wants childfree spaces enforced, as though every else has the power to deliver affirmation/happiness/fulfillment/ for them.
We have allowed the education system to formally endorse this narcissistic demand for omnipotence over omniscience. The school/teacher/exam must not be allowed to correctly rate the student's intelligence, potential, actualisation or anything else. Whether that science is omni is beside the point; parents and students fear and believe that it is, which is why they lose their #$%ing minds when anyone suggests that if the kid gets 70 in every class then maybe he's just kinda a 70. The omnipotence they demand of everyone is the power to make their kid above-average. In some cases they believe this can be done, in other cases they demand the trappings of academic success without the substance (identity divorced from actions). This is TLP narcissism codified and is far worse for society than some lame teacher trying to get kids to like her by saying she's bisexual or whatever.
(I know that economic anxiety is a huge driver here, that parents fear that their kid will end up destitute if he doesn't get into engineering or something, but again, in what world will he be a successful engineer if you explicitly demanded that we cover up his lack of discipline, drive, and ability with fake marks? A world where, with regard to your kid, everyone else is omnipotent without being omniscient)
I guess my point is that the dominant objections here to public education rest on the system's financial or ideological effects, and while those are bad, the psychological effects are much worse and go much deeper than "I was bored and my reward was more work". The financial and ideological objections have more to do with the ed system being mainly made up of the outgroup, but they'll eventually all be dead. It's fine to dream of the day when the system is dissolved or otherwise rendered powerless, but until then, stop demanding accommodations for your kids. It's much worse for them than reading gay comics in English class.
gog
9mo ago
-People are forgetting past perfective. You can find oodles of Youtube videos titled "What I wish I knew before I started (whatever undertaking)" and every one of them means "What I wish I had known."
-Fewer vs less. "I got less chances in that game" is not a thing. Makes you sound like a 5-year-old, right up there with "How much couches do you have."
And to all the cool aunt, "AKshually language evolves" descriptivists, this change entails a loss of possible meanings and is bad. I know "deer" used to mean "any animal" and "corn" used to mean "any grain," etc but when those words changed usage it became possible to express MORE thoughts because the language became more specific. My examples, and the examples that stodgy prescriptivists mostly complain about, all involve a blurring of meanings, which in 99% of cases entails blurring of thought (both as cause and then again as consequence). Do you feel like we have an excess of clear thought out there nowadays? Of course not! Do your part- join the prescriptivists. Make language specific again! SEIZE THE MEANS OF INFLECTION!!!!!!!!
One more: "Have a good rest of your day" is rampant in Canada and has almost completed replaced "Have a good day" among customer service workers under 30 years old. To wish anyone anything implies that you wish it for the future. Are they worried that I might think they're wishing that the past of my day, up to the point of our interaction, had gone (or more likely "went") well? What happened to these people?
gog
9mo ago
Who counts as "productive"? In the Bill and Shelley thread people are using the word to mean anything from "blameless" to "civilizationally load-bearing." Having a definition for "productive" is important to enable people who disagree to converse, otherwise everyone's talking past each other. The best candidate I've seen is "reducing the per-unit cost of a good or service." On this definition Bill and Shelley are obviously not currently productive, since they just spend money and therefore bid up prices of things. The guy who invented the GMO rice is obviously extremely productive, since he made rice way cheaper for millions of people. But what if Bill and Shelley grow one carrot this year, and eat it instead of buying one at the store. They have, in some small way, reduced the per-unit cost of carrots, but this wouldn't be enough for us to call them productive. There's some ratio of how-much-you-reduced-prices to how-much-you-bid-them-up that most people seem to have in mind when they call someone productive in a strictly economic sense. We don't have to quibble over what that ratio is, but it seems to get hard when you consider someone working as a small cog in the Apple machine, or the Toyota machine. Their contribution to reducing per-unit prices is a lot closer to growing one carrot than it is to inventing GMO rice. What definition are you using? How do you tell who is productive?
gog
9mo ago
I'll continue this with you if you explain your understanding of the difference between an economic and a moral argument. You keep stating that the situation isn't fair, which is a moral complaint, not an economic one. I don't dispute that it isn't fair, I dispute that if it were abolished everyone currently alive would get richer.
gog
9mo ago
A fact is not an argument. "If you don't stay home old people may get COVID" is a medical fact, but it is not obvious from that fact what the best course of societal action is.
But anyway, I thought you meant Broken Window policing. The difference between this and the Broken Window fallacy is that these people aren't actually inflicting any damage. They're spending huge amounts of money on frivolous stuff (which is why OP is offended), and that money is circulating around so that high earners can earn it again. The speed of money through the economy drives economic growth, and while a perfectly laissez-faire system might very well have a higher speed of money, switching to such a system, even if it were phased in over a few years, would cause a huge economic contraction. You might object that, as with broken windows, the 27% tax bill is imposing an opportunity cost, that taking OP's money so someone on "stress leave" can buy Tinkerbell statues prevents him from inventing a better battery or something, but A) not giving the Tinkerbell salesman that money might prevent HIM from inventing the same battery and B)the vast majority of taxes taken collected from the industrious and squandered by the poor on frivolous stuff actually impose the opportunity cost of the industrious not being able to squander the money on frivolous stuff himself. So it all boils down to who "deserves" the money, and all talk of desert is moral disputation. Since no one agrees on morality anymore, there can be no moral disputation on a wide scale and so people need to either make peace with the current system or wield it to their benefit.
gog
9mo ago
Government spending on these sorts of programs is so huge that anyone old enough to be posting here would not live long enough to see things shake out if things ever switched, assuming they survived the violence that such a transition would probably involve. If we were setting up a society from scratch, then the current system would be something to avoid, certainly. Having come as far down this road as we have, though, any benefits from switching would fall mainly on generations to come. That might be a great thing, but "duty to future generations" is a moral, not an economic argument. I'm not defending the morality of the system, just explaining that it's not the simple math problem OP seems to think it is.
Furthermore, all of the experiments (I assume you're talking about free-market vs socialist countries) have converged on wild government spending. Unless you say that REAL capitalism has never been tried, then maybe 90% of the population recirculating the wealth produced by the remaining 10% is just how it works? Maybe that's the true triumph of post-scarcity industrial victory: welfare grift and BS jobs for the lucky majority and productive, morally-pure, toil for the unfortunate few.
gog
9mo ago
"The luxury of the spendthrift slackers is paid for by the industrious" is not an economic argument, it's a moral one. I don't see the resemblance to Broken Windows- can you clarify?
gog
9mo ago
While it might be morally offensive that these spendthrift slackers aren’t working as hard as you are, economically it doesn’t matter very much. You can think of your own prosperity in terms of absolute (nominal) numbers, but the real value of your wealth matters a lot more, and the real value of your wealth depends on your relative position in the economy- what fraction of the total economy you own.
If all government aid to these people were switched off overnight and your 27% tax bill were reduced to zero, you would own 27% more of the economy than you do now, but government spending is such a large part of the economy that the total size of the economy would be much less, possibly more than 27% less, which would cancel out your gain. So you wouldn’t be much richer, you might be poorer, and your relative status would be much lower because the median income would skyrocket (because the parasite class would be dead).
gog
10mo ago
They want whomever they believe to be low-status in the culture to have more status. They believe everything is a social construct, and so they conclude that status is not earned, but granted by authorities to preferred classes of people, and stigma to disfavoured classes. Cultural marxists want to become the status/stigma-granting authority, and for them this means controlling art and education. In the US they’re primarily concerned with black people. In Canada they’re concerned about indigenous people. In Europe they’re concerned about migrants or something. You can question whether status actually works this way, but you can’t dispute that this attitude toward status is widespread all across the political spectrum.
gog
10mo ago
"They" is the disadvantaged. And if "they" won't seize the means of cultural production, then a cultural Lenin or Lenins has to do it for them. When the welfare state (mid-20th century, which explains your timeline) solved economic problems but none of the attendant social problems in marginalized communities, it seemed like maybe the problem was cultural power. If no one lacks anything material, but you still don't have the equality you were looking for, maybe you need a black little mermaid.
gog
10mo ago
OG Marxism says that the key to true freedom is for the proletariat to seize the means of industrial production because they are materially oppressed. Cultural Marxism says they need to seize the means of cultural production (art, universities, etc) because they are socially oppressed. Replace "economic status" with "cultural status." Hence "cultural Marxism."
I almost never do good deeds. This is my chief complaint about welfare statism. Virtue has been abdicated to the state- you can’t really be charitable because everyone is looked after. You can’t really be brave because everything is safe. Social atomization (arguably also a consequence of statism) makes it hard even to help someone move a couch because they don’t want to “bother you.” This makes practicing active virtues really had and makes real friendship really hard, because there is so little need for you to help anyone; friendship has been reduced to hanging out.
When life was harder, we needed each other a lot more. That doing one good deed makes us think of “accolades” is a sign of how weird the current situation is. I once got a call in the middle of the night to bring gas to a guy who had run out and I was SO happy. That was like 7 years ago. Ask people for more! Give them the chance to be virtuous!
gog
1yr ago
The tough-guy/hot chick tattoos of yesteryear are mostly finished in the wild. Some 40 year-olds who didn't get the memo still get them, but most of the tattoos I see nowadays are just crappy line doodles of flowers or mountains or whatever on the floppy, under-toned triceps of 20 year old girls. These don't communicate criminality or BPD or sluttiness like they did in the old days- they signal (intentionally or not) total conformity to Latest Thing. They look stupid, but I wouldn't even say they look ugly- they just look like she got pen on her arm, like an accident. Tattoos as threat- or sexual availability-signals I could at least understand, but I don't understand these new ones at all.
gog
1yr ago
I was printing off copies of the article every day back when it first came out because I didn't trust the correction notices. Over about 4 days the article got softer and softer with no notice of correction provided. It went from "human remains" to "GPR hits" to "possible graves". It was only like 6 months later, after the GPR company publicly said "we never said they were remains," that the CBC started saying "sites of concern."
Note that their articles announcing actual excavations that have turned up nothing, they preface the story with "This article contains disturbing details," which is tipping the hand a little.
gog
1yr ago
I worked at a daycare for one glorious year. Kids a little less than a year old were dropped off at 7 and picked up at 5. One kid screamed for the entire duration, every day, for months. The other kids just screamed for a week. The attendants cuddled the babies, but they mostly left them on the floor to crawl around. By the time they graduated to the 2-year-old room, the kids were merely supervised, rather than attended to. This was a budget daycare, but not unusually so. The 12th kid on a farm would get a lot more attention than these babies, certainly until age 2 or so, and it would be maternal or sororal attention, rather than "minimum wage demands that I hold you for 10 minutes every hour). Furthermore, even a baby left alone in the corner of the kitchen while the mother makes johnny cakes (or whatever 12-child farm families eat) is still in its mother's presence. Daycare babies are not.
gog
1yr ago
Beans, tofu, etc are not good sources of protein. They contain more protein than, say, lettuce, but nothing comes close to meat. Costco sells eye of round for very cheap. It doesn’t taste good, but it’s low fat and leaves you a lot of calories to fill with tasty stuff. Costco also sells protein powder cheaper than pretty much anywhere else. Finally, pasta is cheap and 10-12% protein, which can add up to a lot after a few bowls.
gog
1yr ago
You don’t want to “bulk.” You want to eat like 200 calories more per day than you need to, otherwise you’ll get fatter way faster than you get stronger. They say 0.82 grams of protein per lb of body weight is optimal; after that, returns diminish.
To be sure about both of those, you need to track calories and macros. Track what you normally eat for like 2 weeks and see how your weight changes, then adjust up or down accordingly. I was stalled for years because “I eat a lot of meat,” but when I started actually tracking it I was shocked at how little protein I was actually getting. I use MyFitnessPal, but there are lots of apps.
gog
1yr ago
It's not 50%. It's like 20%. At school-wide exam time, in five exam rooms of 30 kids, if each room loses 6, then the "alternate space" contains 30 and each normal room contains 24. For regular tests it's 2 or 3 here and there.
As far as retaking tests, if you can retake them there is little incentive to study, so you can just blow them and it doesn't matter. Since it's a massive pain to make fair tests (about 8 hours for the kind of history tests that are expected in my region, for example) there are usually only two versions, so by the third attempt the kid has already seen all the questions and discussed them with everyone else. Besides the obvious problems, this also makes it impossible to go through the tests with the students and explain why the correct answers are correct, point out the tricky bits, etc.
Late homework is just as bad. Of course marks should just be a reflection of how well the kid knows things, but culturally this is an impossible attitude. Marks are the currency we use to pay students. The point of the homework (we can debate the effectiveness, but this is the intent) is to learn something at a certain point in the course sequence. The mark you get for the homework is the currency the school uses to get you to learn it at the correct time. (The mark you get on the test is the currency the school pays you for having actually learned it). When there is no penalty for late homework, kids let it pile up until literally the last day of the year, after the exam is complete, and then show up and try to desperately churn out a bunch of work from the first week to see what happens to their mark (no matter how many times you explain the math, they won't/can't calculate the effect). So the teacher can just waive the homework. This is the easiest option, but not fair to the kids who played along, and also punishes the kid trying to hand it in late, because now his tests count for much more (and he's no genius and he didn't do the homework, so his test marks are low). Or the teacher can accept all the homework, which is annoying because it is pointless. The tests and exams are over- the proof of learning is complete, so the evidence of the learning process is useless.
gog
1yr ago
I've worked in BC. It might be better, but you have to keep in mind that none of this is advertised or even visible unless your kid sucks at school or you go shopping for it. And I'm talking about high school- before high school, a lot of the problems are just passed along, year after year, because no one can fail. Once high school hits and suddenly kids can fail, the Goodharting begins.
gog
1yr ago
I don't think my school's situation is extreme. I'd guess that it's about average for a suburban school. If you live around lots of immigrants the situation I describe will be less common.
Location wise, all I can say is that I'm somewhere east of BC.
gog
1yr ago
I am a teacher in Canada, so I can't say much about the US Dept of Ed, but I can say a few things about how special ed works up here as a general reply to many of the comments below. Assume that whatever happens in Canada, it's probably worse in the US.
I work at a high school in a pretty affluent area. The affluence generally comes from remunerative blue collar work, not professional work. My school has over 1200 students and a third of them have special ed plans. There is virtually no violence at my school, no crime, students are polite and obedient. They just don't do or learn anything because of special ed plans.
These special ed plans are sometimes the result of tests carried out by private psychologists, sometimes the result of tests carried out by school psychologists, but are frequently ordered by family doctors. At least one was one sentence emailed by a paediatrician when the kid hadn't even been checked. None of these pathways is any worse than the others- they are all fraudulent.
They nearly all specify that the student needs extra time and a "quiet space" for tests because of anxiety.
The "quiet space" requirement is written up on demand because the kids know it will get them their own little room for tests. Everyone but the parents knows this, but if you try to tell the parents they freak out because the school isn't taking their child's special learning style seriously. Moreover, you can hear a pin drop during a test in even the rowdiest classes and so the requirement now demands "an alternative space." Last exam season, it was not possible to give every kid a private or semi-private room, so all the alternative space kids were sent to one big room, resulting in an "alternative space" that contained more students than any of the 4 exam rooms with containing the normal kids. All stakeholders found this acceptable.
The "extra time" requirement is invoked any time a kid starts to do poorly. "Well you didn't give her enough time to show what she really knows." This was originally intended for exams, although the extra time kids almost almost get the same 54% they would have gotten in half the time. By now, however, parents demand it for everything. If one attempts to explain that taking 40 minutes for a 20-minute assignment every day means 20 minutes of missed class time - a class wherein the student was already struggling- parents are baffled. Up until grade 10, it had never occurred to them that there might not be unlimited time in the school day. Any teacher who doesn't provide this time is summoned to A Meeting with the parents and the principal, and since the average teacher is Lisa Simpson, this prospect is so threatening that it never needs to happen.
The third most common "accomodation" is to have all written material read out loud by an aide. Since around 20% of 1200 students are officially entitled to this, it is not possible for a human aide to read to them all, and so text-to-speech programs are used. When text-to-speech is offered, students don't use it because the advantage of the human aide is that you can read the best aides for clues about the right answer and straight up ask the worst aides what they think the answer is. This is usually enough to get a passing mark. Refusing the text-to-speech but using an aide if available is an admission by the student that the whole thing was a scam from the start. Note that the most common exam to have read to you is the grade 12 English reading comprehension exam. All stakeholders find this acceptable.
The fourth most common accomodation is to have someone write out your essay for you as you dictate it, not because you are a poor handwriter (parents, students and other teachers react with horror at the suggestion that even a one-paragraph response could be completed by hand) but because you are a poor typist. When you ask the aides who do this what they did to help the student, they straight up admit to helping the student "organize their thoughts before putting them into words." The students find this to be the most helpful part of having a "scribe. " All stakeholders find this acceptable.
These are only the academic allowances. Almost every student with a special ed plan is entitled to "movement breaks." Weird in high school, but whatever. In practice this means that if they get bored they are allowed to wander the halls with their friends. Predictably, these sorts of kids get bored with schoolwork very quickly. They also get preferential seating. All are entitled to laptops to "help with notetaking" (no notes are ever taken). One specific kid must always have his computer and also no one is ever allowed to sit behind him. Doctor's orders. Any kid who appears to be indigenous is allowed to leave class literally whenever they want to get free cookies because "you can't learn if you're hungry." No other ethnicity is believed to get hungry.
All of this is million dollar (Canadian) Goodharting scheme. The point of special ed is to launder cheating so that students who would otherwise fail can pass classes that absolutely do not matter. The parents of an illiterate student in grade ten are more worried about her geography mark than about the fact that she can't read. When you ask the dedicated special ed teachers about this, they don't even understand the question because the idea of doing anything to a)verify that the special ed needs are legit and b)rectify or mitigate the disabilities that cause them is so far off their radar that they never imagine it. The special ed teacher's main job is compliance- making sure the other teachers give out the extra time and movement breaks.
Anti-school Motteposters might protest that school is hell/prison/etc and so if a kid can use these tricks to escape the drudgery and the power-tripping teachers then they should go for it. But these students are the ones schools are actually designed for. They are the lowest common denominator and will not learn to code (or whatever) with the time they save by gaming special ed. In fact, the special ed gaming costs them huge amounts of time. While sitting in class might be boring, sitting in the cheating room for 45 minutes so that no one questions why you finished the test so quickly is far more boring. Listening to a 50-year-old Phillipina immigrant trying to pronounce "deoxyribonucleic" on question 10 and realizing you have 50 questions left to endure is far more boring. Furthermore, the more one believes that school is a waste of time and money, the more one should rage at the fact that parents, whose attitude toward all of this reveals that they see school as no more than a daycare, continue to accept the billion-dollar form of daycare when they could just use the minimum-wage daycare across the street. And finally, the more you mistrust teachers (and you should) the more you should hate this system because it covers up their incompetence. When a third of kids show up in grade 10 apparently unable to read, no one goes to the grades 1-9 teachers to demand an explanation. "They all have special ed plans" is considered a sufficient explanation for everything.
gog
1yr ago
It's really the horror of arguments. Validity gets hard to check really fast. In geometry or deductive logic it's really easy, in law it's harder but maybe still feasible. But once you get to "I should not be taxed to raise funds for the care of the mentally retarded because of my natural right to property" it's basically impossible, and all that remains is persuasion. I grant that persuasion is largely also rhetorical, but good-faith persuasion seeks to persuade the interlocutor. Lawyer-arguing, (street-litigation?) is carried out, face-to-face, in what ordinary people would consider a personal conversation, as though there were a jury or judge listening, and so rhetoric and theatrics get deployed to sway onlookers, but there are no onlookers; there are only participants. The interlocutor becomes a means, where in good-faith argument he would be an end.
gog
1yr ago
Talk to some lawyers and see if you still think the LSAT weeds out bad-faith political arguments. Lawyers seem especially prone to bad-faith argument; I suspect it's because litigation depends so much on quibbles and rhetoric that they can't turn it off in other settings (or that the profession attracts people who think that quibbles and rhetoric are central). In any case, the LSAT doesn't cure them, although maybe they'd be even worse without it.
Studying for LSAT-type tests isn't part of the curriculum because so many people are bad it, and therefore it would have a disparate impact on various social groups. Teachers as a class hatehatehatehatehate (1)Quanitifiable metrics (due to a combination of incompetence, professional ass-covering and social justice theories) and (2)Anything that makes them feel dumb. See the various cheating scandals in Ontario for more on what happened when the government brought in a basic math test for teachers.
But even if that could be surmounted, you don't want a poll test. There is no way it would stay neutral. It would end up full of questions like "Since structural racism has entrenched white people in positions of power, which of the following analogies holds?" Passing such a test would be a 3-hour, registered, certificated "workers of the world, unite" sign.
And finally, just because a political argument is flawed doesn't mean its conclusion is wrong, so weeding out people who make or are fooled by such arguments wouldn't help much. Most political reasoning is post hoc anyway, so you'd bring in this testing system and go through all the hassle just to push the political problem back exactly one step from "bad argument" to "core values/ideology", which are not reliably responsive to argument.
We should still have more standardized tests though, with the option to post your score on some public registry. It would solve a lot of other problems.
-Even mid-quality tests under universal intellectual standards (so, not counting braille, etc) are accurate measures of both student learning and student rank. Society (this includes teachers and students) expects both measures from schools. When even a small number of people get special intellectual standards (different time constraints, faster writing tools, someone to read the questions to them, etc) even the best tests no longer measure either of the things they are supposed to measure. "But schools are designed to teach conformity, man"- well, they're not even doing that if everyone gets special treatment.
-Parents are deeply involved in grade-grubbing (the trappings of success) but uninvolved in actual education (the substance of success). A parent who was worried that their kid wasn't learning chemistry would either take responsibility for the kids chemistry knowledge and find/be a better teacher, or demand that the school clean up its act. Very few parents are out there demanding more educational rigor, and we admittedly can't tell how many are silently tutoring their kids, but there are certainly lots of parents who have taken a third path and demanded that the chemistry test be made easier for their own personal kid. This often requires expensive diagnosis shopping (though it takes less and less shopping every year) and wild amounts of time spent in meetings and consultations, and the effect of all this expense is to produce the trappings for good parenting ("I'm Serious(tm) about education") instead of the substance of good parenting ("I learned chemistry to help my kid"). And of course this shouldn't be necessary, the school should handle it, but here we are and this is what parents have done. And of course your kid's personal worth as a human doesn't depend on his grade 12 chem mark, but then why are we trying everything (except learning chemistry) to make that number go up?
-Administrators do not care about learning, hands down. If any learning should accidentally occur in one of their schools, they're fine with it, but not at the cost of graduation rates or parent complaints, which are the two measures on which they are formally and informally evaluated. You can hope for some sleeper cell of serious teachers to worm their way into the upper ranks, but the admin system actually does select for conformity, so the people in charge already know which of their former colleagues are the good ones (interpreted either way, the result is the same).
-Most teachers also don't care about learning, even if they once did. Teachers are mostly women, and the modal woman cares even less than the modal man about learning stuff, especially academic stuff. Those women who achieve academic success are usually motivated by approval and they bring that model with them when they become teachers, so you get girls with straight As because their notes are neatly written (a kid last week was explaining to me how she should actually be really good at math and, as evidence of this, showed me her magifnicent notes. She didn't understand them, but they were beautiful.) Where this is not the case, among both women and men, teachers are often motivated by an interest in the subject (which 99% of students do not share) or an actual desire to see students learn (which 99% of students do not do in any appreciable way past grade 2). As you find that kids don't care about your subject, or aren't learning it, or both, you either quit, kill yourself, double down and become the Mean Teacher (me), or redefine your job to preserve your ego. You tell yourself that actually you can look anything up on Wikipedia now, so what really matters is critical thinking, and so you just talk about DEI all day. Or you tell yourself that these kids' parents are all bigots and will abuse them if they find out their kids are gay, so you go fishing for closeted gay kids so you can be their confidante. When it turns out that there are very few gay kids, you go all in trans stuff, etc. Or you say that your real job is to spark a love of learning, so you have the kids in Gr 10 advanced English read Harry Potter with no actual demands just so they see that reading is fun. If you ever crack down and try to make the kids learn, you can't talk about DEI, they won't think of you as Cool, they won't think learning is fun, etc. "But learning can be fun!" Only up to a certain point- after that it takes effort, and effort feels really bad if you aren't used to it. Kids These Days are not used to it.
-Wealthy, non-stupid kids gaming the system are hurting themselves a bit, because most of them lack the self-awareness of the ones interviewed in the article. The average accommodation-demanding student truly believes that their poor academic performance is excused by their test anxiety, ADHD, or whatever else. They believe that they really are just as smart/driven as actually successful students, they just haven't been given "a chance to show what they know." But if you got into Harvard, someone will see to it that you are looked after. The bigger worry are kids like the law clerk mentioned in this thread, who doesn't get that his test results were just a measure, not the actual goal, and doesn't see how the real work isn't gameable like school was.
-Everyone is hurt by this, though, because it encourages insecure narcissism during the prime years when you should be growing out of it. You really do have to read TLP to get a full explanation of why, but if you believe your success depends entirely on the efforts of the people around you, and happiness is a form of success, then you will make unreasonable demands of your wife, kids, job, friends, etc and become a hell to be around. This will make you solitary and isolated and cause you to think that if you could just get people to do what you want, you'd be happy. But they didn't do what you wanted before, so why would it work now? Well, you'll become a different person. But since change is hard and you were actively robbed of the opportunity to substantially change while you were growing up, you will instead change personas. So you start taking roids to make up for your lack of rizz (RizzNotRoids would be a good username) or you buy a bunch of Funko pops to feel like part of a community, or you get botox because pretty girls have friends, or whatever. It's bad, and it doesn't work, and it's widespread. My contention in the post was that this is the biggest problem with grade inflation and broken schools- it actively encourages this mindset when it used to shake you out of it.
-I want schools to deliver value proportionate to their cost. They will not be abolished, so they should be reformed. They can be reformed in 5 ways:
(1) Students can man up and either accept their results or put in the work to improve them instead of making bs excuses to get their parents off their backs. This will never happen.
(2) Parents can act like they actually believe either of their two claims: That marks are not a meaningful measure of anything (this frees the school to use them to accurately measure things by stopping the grade-grubbing) or that getting good results is really important (which would translate into pressure on kids and schools to actually deliver on learning). This may happen, but it's unlikely that the culture will shift all at once without some external force being applied, and it's hard to imagine what that force could be. Russian dominance in the space-race, I guess?
(3)Teachers could grow a backbone and just stop giving in to parental pressure. Grade-grubbers grub grades because grubbing gets the grades grubbed, and this includes accommodations. There are lots of ways to increase friction in the accommodation system. If a kid demands double time on quizzes, have a quiz every day- now it is chronologically impossible for him to have double time. If a kid needs someone to type for him (very common) do everything orally and see how he likes that. If a kid says "Look, I'm not trying to play the special ed card here . . ." point out that that's exactly what they're doing (this is amazingly effective). This has the advantage that no formal systemic changes are required- we got here by teachers informally taking the path of least resistance over and over for many years. It has the disadvantage that teachers are mostly very agreeable, hate conflict, and don't think the current situation is a big problem, so they will never all spontaneously coordinate to do this.
(4) Administrators could do the same thing. But they are even more filtered for allegiance to the current system, so this won't happen.
(5) The government could actually impose standards. Curricula and codes of education, as they are written, are usually pretty strict. The legal basis for a tougher ed system is there but governments have permitted too much drift, mainly because of law suits and human-rights legislation-from-the-bench. There are workaround to all this, especially in Canada where nearly all rights avowedly exist at the pleasure of the monarchy-inspired state (see sec. 1 and 33 of the CCRF). Politically, this would be feasible if you circled around incompetent teachers' unions for a few years (easy to do) and then proposed that we actually make those clowns do their jobs instead of (or in addition to) trying to get rid of this or that gay book. You could spin accommodations and fluff classes as a ploy by teachers to paper over bad teaching and connect accommodations to grift on the part of the system, rather than on the part of parents and students. Even though this would require ways to prevent teachers from gaming results, you can just decide to do that, whereas solutions 1-4 all depend mainly on hope. So this is what I want from schools.
You can't count on universities or the private sector to create their own exams, because cash-strapped universities will take anyone now and the private sector has revealed its preference for low-salaries at the cost of almost all else, so most jobs would require a trivial test. "If that's all most jobs require, why make schools do all this stuff?"- Because schools aren't going away and they cost a fortune, so we might as well try to get an educated population for the money. If they do go away, or become really cheap, that changes the entire debate completely.
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