sohois
2d ago
As per my earlier response, this is not a claim that externalities don't exist or that local communities have no right to regulate local construction. I am remarking on the argument that construction shouldn't proceed because there is no demand, and this lack of demand is unevidenced and based entirely on the vibes of the objector
sohois
3d ago
I'm going to make the same point I've just made to Bombadil: the point of the meme reference is that the third party in this case has zero relevance to the transaction. There is party A, wanting to buy AI services, and party B, wanting to sell AI services, and then party X, saying that the demand doesn't actually exist and this transaction isn't real.
I'm not trying to make a fully general counter-argument against regulation here, and the above example would be different if party X felt that the AI services being traded carried dangers or externalities for the wider public. But for the specific quotes above, no one is making that case, they are simply claiming that because they don't see a value in a product or service, the value must not exist.
sohois
3d ago
Right, but that's a different argument. OliveTapenade quotes the article:
They clearly saw it as like a widget — a toy — and maybe there are these risks, maybe there’s the job stuff, but fundamentally they were like: This thing is not that useful. I don’t really see in my personal life how this could justify these gigantic valuations.
And adds his own opinion:
A big part of the dissonance, it seems to me, is around the perception of what 'AI' is and whether it's valuable.
This isn't saying that cities can't regulate what gets built nearby, it's saying that regulation is needed because they don't believe that a market exists for building X. To use a much simpler example I've seen in the UK, it's saying that you can't open up a new chain coffee store in my town because there are already several coffee stores nearby and it's not needed - essentially saying I know you're willing to invest your own money in this business venture, but I've decided I know better than the markets.
sohois
3d ago
Markets: I consent
Investors: I consent
Isn't there somebody you forgot to ask?
In the UK we don't really have the same data centre showdowns described in this article, because the UK is already such a planning hellhole that no one would bother. Battles tend to be a lot smaller, focused on random businesses and housing developments. Nonetheless, so many of the NIMBY arguments seem to apply regardless of scale, one of the biggest of which is some kind of weird, communist, demand-management approach. "We don't need that here". "No one wants that". "Why are they building X instead of Y?"
Well, who the fuck cares about your market opinion, random local? Why are you the arbiter of supply and demand? Very obviously, somebody wants it; that's why people are putting their time and money down to build these things, whether it's a data centre or a bakery.
Now, I do accept that there is one difference when it comes to scale: data centres are so massive that a failed construction could leave you with a giant ruin somewhere, destroying local environments for nothing, whereas a small housing development or business won't have anywhere near the same impact. But even in this article, the first example is a proposal to replace the treasured, historic ... industrial wasteland. If something goes wrong there, you end up in exactly the same position!
It doesn't seem like any of the opponents in the substack even made a general "AI bubble" or similar argument (and that's putting aside the fact that data centres are the backbone of all modern infra, not just AI. There'd still be a ton of data centre construction if LLMs didn't exist). Their complaints are much more local, and concern about the companies doing the building is rooted in general distrust of corpos rather than anything AI specific.
I'm not disputing that, I'm saying that the argument is very often "This thing is not that useful to me, and therefore, to anyone"
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