traveller
1yr ago
Yes, any city dedicating a statue to its founder and leaving it to stand is a completely self-evident course of events. There's no need to back that up.
People disliking people murdering them is very natural. Disliking things associated with murderers is also generally obvious.
completely self-evident course of events. There's no need to back that up.
As demonstrated by Odessa residents it is not, where it was removed with broad local support.
traveller
1yr ago
Vandalism is morally reprehensible.
Well, Ukrainians are irritated about (among other things) that Russia is vandalising Ukraine, including Odessa specifically.
traveller
1yr ago
So I reckon they'd prefer to live in village shacks as barbarians (also in the original sense of the word) - i.e. not in a city
As they have option to keep city while not honouring Russian ruler, why this would be relevant at all?
Also, it is not like city would not be founded there or nearby sooner or later.
traveller
1yr ago
TI4 seems superior based on few games I played
Is
TI3:Shards of the Throne game using the Fall of the Empire scenario
having something to recommend it? Is it redoable in TI4?
traveller
1yr ago
I don't think any Baltic countries ran referendums of elections in 1945.
Well, that is a good way to make impossible to provide evidence that "Baltic referenda in '45 on joining the USSR were rigged" :)
And for 1940 ones I will just requote:
was the only party allowed to run
Seriously, anyone that is hearing about USSR-run elections and is not wondering "how they falsified them" is poorly informed.
Especially annexation "referenda" in just conquered areas, the same goes for what Russia run recently in occupied Ukraine.
traveller
1yr ago
Poland constructed border wall and illegally pushed back migrants.
Unlike with almost all other things EU was not really complaining (unless it is proceeding and someone plans to dump also this on Poland/PiS?).
traveller
1yr ago
Ukraine has also some resources, including not yet exploited gas fields.
By "associated with murderers" I meant "associated with Putin and modern Russia as she was also a leader of Russia"
For quite clear reasons Ukrainians are disliking anything Russia-adjacent more and more as Russia continues to bomb them and murder their friends/family members.
Former leader of Russia is clearly Russian-adjacent.
Was the Russian government supposed
Russian government is supposed to stop their invasion of Ukraine, give back invaded areas and stop murdering people and vandalising Ukraine and kidnapping people. For start.
traveller
1yr ago
If UE would continue pulling hard toward unstable sources like wind and solar that will make gas peakers (and pumped hydropower and other now theoretical grid-scale batteries) more needed, not less.
(or you can just redefine gas as green and renewable and go on if you really need this)
traveller
1yr ago
And Russian Orthodox Church was basically taken over by state during USSR and even before it was strongly supporting Russian state.
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow is also supporting Russian invasion
On 9 March 2022, after the liturgy, he declared that Russia has the right to use force against Ukraine to ensure Russia's security, that Ukrainians and Russians are one people, that Russia and Ukraine are one country, that the West incites Ukrainians to kill Russians in order to sow discord between Russians and Ukrainians and gives weapons to Ukrainians for this specific purpose, and therefore the West is an enemy of Russia and God.
traveller
1yr ago
Citadel by marketing material doesn’t take those risks. All factor neutral.
Many funds that failed in catastrophic ways made similar claims.
See say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management - to say nothing about repeated outright scams claiming the same
traveller
1yr ago
Well, if the vaccine is that deadly, how smart are the "smart, educated" people who went ahead and got it, versus the "dumb, uneducated" who were suspicious and sceptical?
IF
traveller
1yr ago
If they're so smart, why did they fall for the psy-op?
If we discuss reality? Because vaccine was better than no vaccine.
Anyone with a certain brain processing power that has lived in the Western world for 20+ years has no excuse.
For not taking vaccine.
traveller
1yr ago
The high mortality at these camps liberated by the Western allies was caused by a collapsing German infrastructure as it was being destroyed in the final days of the war.
What you then claim what happened with Polish Jewish pre-war population? Are you also claiming that forcing Jews into ghettos by Germans was fake? Executing people across conquered territories?
I bet that there is plenty of propaganda (add "soap made from human fat" to that) but presenting in a way that claims "Germans have not mass-murdered millions" is even more misleading.
Also, is it intentional that your username in short is SS?
traveller
1yr ago
I expect that they refer to deeper past than 1970. Though I lack knowledge here - from what I understand in sufficiently older times "who gets children after divorce" was irrelevant as there was no divorce.
traveller
1yr ago
It is mostly intended as feedback to SS - in case they are interested why normies like me react to them as they react.
(especially as typical reaction may be based in the end on it, even if ends phrased as "go away")
traveller
1yr ago
This also presents a problem because "the case" for the Holocaust entirely relies on witness testimony
This is a blatant lie, dear SS. Unless you claim that for example demographic statistics before (or after) war were falsified and demographics of Polish Jews were falsified before war and so on. To say nothing about Gypsies demographics that somehow for some reason cratered during WW II.
traveller
1yr ago
And my general take is that Holocaust denialism/revisionism isn't so much a problem in and of itself as long as the person arguing it isn't trying to extend the argument to say "and therefore the Nazis weren't so bad" or, worse "and therefore we shouldn't worry about/take efforts to prevent future genocide attempts."
I admit that for me what triggers "go away, you nasty troll" is that their username shortens to SS.
Which takes turn to pissing on graves for me.
traveller
1yr ago
How hard is it to simply shoot the drug dealers?
Easy. Without shooting whoever-is-disliked-by-local-police? Hard.
Is there any logical reason for a nazi symphatiser to claim the Holocaust wasn't as murderous as the official accounts?
No, but I would not expect much from nazi symphatisers. Extreme tankies that I encountered at least tend to be self consistent and more reality-adjacent with their "we murdered kulaks and that was a good thing" or more modern "we hope that Europeans, especially Ukrainians, will freeze to death during 2022/2023 winter"[1].
"Holocaust has not happened but should" is something that I often encountered among online nazis, especially 4chan adjacent.
BTW, I need to refind this Russian propaganda how European Union will freeze during winter, so far it is going even more hilariously than I expected.
[1]not an exact quote, I forgot the slur that was used here
traveller
1yr ago
It seems likely that they sincerely believe it, but topic and style and tactics they use makes them functionally a troll.
The post-war demographic data entirely comes from Soviet authorities
Not entirely. There were some many Jewish Poles that to detect that they almost entirely disappeared does not require reliable statistics. Entire communities disappeared, to the point that it was noticeable even in Poland where around 16% of population was murdered.
You are again being misleading. Populations of Jews in Poland (before they were murdered by Germans) was readily noticeable, it is not like COVID/vaccines where you need to rely on statistics to establish effects.
And for some weird reason they basically disappeared and by pure coincidence that happened during time when Germans invaded. And Germans had rabid hate toward Jews, even greater then toward Poles/Ukrainians which were supposed to be subjugated and enslaved.
Even if Germans imprisoned Jews in concentrations camps and starved there them to death, and gas chambers were entirely fake then it does not strongly change anything at all. OK, it reduces my opinion about historians. But surely it will not improve my opinion about Nazis.
Or are you denying that Germans were rapidly antisemitic? Are you denying deportation to ghettos? Are you denying deportation to concentration camps? Are you also denying murder of millions via shooting and starvation? (also Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians and so on, Jews were less than half of victims of Holocaust). Are you denying that people in concentration camps were horrifyingly mistreated?
traveller
1yr ago
And then imagine after an exchange debating the evidence for the claim, you ultimately force a "stalemate" by saying "if they weren't murdered, cremated, and buried right here then where did they go?"
I would be happy to discuss facts even with neonazis, as long are they reality adjacent.
If it turns out that someone is full-bore genocide denialists (or praises Mao or claims that Pol Pot was a good leader or that there was no internal paedophilia conspiracy of any kind in Catholic Church or that there is no biological difference between males and females) then I will find better way to procrastinate.
Are you also denying that Germans were rapidly antisemitic? Are you denying deportation to ghettos? Are you denying deportation to concentration camps? Are you also denying murder of millions via shooting and starvation? (also Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians and so on, Jews were less than half of victims of Holocaust). Are you denying that people in concentration camps were horrifyingly mistreated?
Also, are you a neonazi dear SS? Is your username shortening to SS coincidence or deliberate?
Is there any indicator that they were unique in being not rigged?
From quick look 1940 vote (after Russia invaded central Europe together with Nazi Germany) was blatantly rigged ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Parliament - Lithuania supposedly had 99.2% communist vote with 95.5% turnout, Estonia 92.2% and 81.6%, Latvia 97.6% and 94.7% )
Referendum in Poland run by USSR at that time was clearly falsified.
Why on Earth you would assume that USSR run elections in conquered country were not blatantly rigged?
(I admit that I have not found sources how 1945 were run or even good mention of them, but if Russians have not falsified them - then I would be really surprised)
Being invaded is quite good evidence.
Needing to falsify elections is also a good hint.
Repeated protests that in 1991 were not crushed even by running over protestors with tanks are also quite good evidence.
People declaring independence as soon as Russia lost its power and trying to get away from it is also a good hint.
If previous government was result as invasion by oppressive regime, blatantly oppressed people and independence had clear support - then surely you can do this.
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