voters-eliot-azure
patently unbiased
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User ID: 3622
voters-eliot-azure
patently unbiased
2d ago
I put this in my edit, but your comment stood out to me:
I appreciate the responses, there was actually quite a bit of variety which was nice to read. I came away with a steelman (which I didn't have originally) which is that the theatrics of ICE is meant to intimidate illegal immigrants.
What are your thoughts on the selective pressure this will have for illegal immigrants? My first thoughts were that it would select for:
- immigrants who are reckless and fearless (or motivated by lots of money, e.g. coyotes) - basically, criminals
- immigrants who face such extreme danger in their home country that even Twitter videos of brown people being tackled by men in masks doesn't slow them down - these desperate people would probably be considered "authentic" refugees by most leftists, and not just "economic migrants"
Probably a general success, then, because "economic migrant" is probably the lowest position on even the left's list of "immigrants who should move to the front of the line".
voters-eliot-azure
patently unbiased
2d ago
Forcefully and publicly initiating the detention of illegal aliens for their removal is not a novel tactic: raids on businesses (but no accountability for the business owners) has always been an ICE tactic. That new-new is everything that's actually being complained about: masks, no badges, no warrants presented, no cooperation with the judiciary (yet), no oversight by congress (yet), no transparency with the public beyond "Rah Rah go-get-em" and "Enemies of America"-rhetoric by Noem and Leavitt.
voters-eliot-azure
patently unbiased
2d ago
I think you should read some of the co-commenter responses to get a better idea about what most people thought of when I mentioned "ICE" and "blackbagging" in the year of our Lord 2025, June. I don't think I was being particularly vague.
voters-eliot-azure
patently unbiased
2d ago
I can tell by the lack of responses that this comment didn't really resonate with anyone else either.
Is this just "Nothing ever happens, stop overreacting" in more words?
voters-eliot-azure
patently unbiased
2d ago
I appreciate the response. I had figured that your perspective existed among the perspectives on this forum (I've seen ~ "illegal immigration is the most existential threat the US faces" expressed).
General poll of opinions here, since I don't see much conversation about it - either because of news bubbles or general disinterest in discussing the ugly side of authoritarianism.
Main query: Are the blackbagging tactics of ICE a necessary evil, a dangerous overstep, or some nuanced in-between?
Genuinely, I don't have a steelman for blackbagging tactics. Right now, ICE is targeting a certain type of "undesirable", namely, allegedly undocumented illegal immigrants, and appear to have carte blanche to apprehend anyone who disrupts that process. But the hallmark of authoritarianism is to expand the definition of "undesirable" to include your political opponents - and if blackbagging undesirables is already palatable, then you can blackbag your political opponents. It's a matter of convenience that political enemies are already attempting to disrupt the blackbagging of undocumented illegal immigrants - it makes that leap that much easier were it to happen. How convenient as well that there's now an entire organizational apparatus gaining valuable experience in how to make people disappear on US soil? They may look like mall cops who are dressed for the paintball arena for now, but if they happened to get any of that DoD money...
Blackbagging by ICE seems to be an extrajudicial process by design, as a flex of the unitary executive theory that the judiciary exists only to serve the will of the executive. The judiciary is viewed as uncooperative and painted as obstructive, despite being intentionally hamstrung by the right wing of congress that has refused for several presidential terms to pass any immigration reform despite bipartisan efforts. One doesn't have to look very hard at all to find red tribe voices foaming at the mouth to declare enemies of the state: official mouthpieces of the current administration, senators, congresspeople. History rhymes, and I know enough of the current admin has read Carl Schmitt to recognize the paths that are available to them at this point if they happen to be hungry for power.
Ending query: Assuming (for the sake of this question) that the end goal of this administration is to establish a type of authoritarianism where people are kidnapped and disappeared because of vocal opposition to the regime, what should be the response by the opposition that would want to prevent that? History buffs, what are the best examples of countries barely recovering from the brink of authoritarianism?
Edit: I appreciate the responses, there was actually quite a bit of variety which was nice to read. I came away with a steelman (which I didn't have originally) which is that the theatrics of ICE is meant to intimidate illegal immigrants. In effect, it would seem like that would select for immigrants who are reckless and fearless (yikes), or immigrants who face such extreme danger in their home country that even Twitter videos of brown people being tackled by men in masks doesn't slow them down (these desperate people would probably be considered "authentic" refugees by most leftists, and not just "economic migrants").
You really set me up for a "Just following orders" response here after I already invoked Carl Schmitt.
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