wemptronics
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User ID: 95
wemptronics
2mo ago
They aren't entitled the courts have said as much.
Blasting drivers after they: form convoys, interdict Federal vehicles, ram those vehicles, and do so with pistols sitting in their lap is an outcome, but it is not one I would consider just fine. I place ICE/CBP beyond the ATF on the meathead-unprofessional gradient for Federal law enforcement agencies. They will handle business in accordance to this position. The fact they didn't shoot more than one person or any caged pets might push them to be on par with the ATF. We'll have to see more cases.
This is more in the concerning or bad category of outcomes that, yes, would be easier to mitigate with some greater effort of cooperation or support from local officers. If for no other reason than for the city to protect its residents from dying for The Cause.
You, personally, have an assuredly principled line in the sand -- or a consideration of factors -- that allows you to move abacus beads on the appropriate exchange-pogrom language scale. I agree that this is not pogrom language. I don't think the gap is as wide on this reportedly accidental, unprompted exchanged, but my point was the accurate placement on the pogrom scale is not so important to the politics.
We The People transcended opprobrium. The Motte is not supposed to partake in the enlightenment, so in that regard you deserve kudos for working on the details. There is a lot of grievance bleeding in. Voters, not party, will get the chance to decide how much such things matter anyway. That's probably for the best or worst.
That would be so much more damning and would totally fuck him
Why do you think that would fuck him?
If there is a threshold that causes a party to lose political interest over words then the words have different targets-- or, the act of withdrawal has lesser consequences. I can only speculate where the threshold is, but it requires certain political conditions to be lowered. All else being equal, if this was a three year old text of the candidate writing, 'March the whole family against a wall and shoot them all, yes including the evil fascist breeding babies,' then this receives roughly the same response. This is not so different as to what was was provided. Obviously he's not serious, context, Trump and whatabout, says NarwhalRedditor along with the state party apparatchik having a bad day.
There's little this guy could have written of his enemy that would disqualify him via October Surprise. If we found a much older text from 10 years ago where he referred to his constituents/neighbors as 'greedy kikes' and 'dumb niggers' that might not be recoverable. He becomes a much greater liability then, but a text the opposition sat on about them? Fat chance. If evidence arose he was soliciting prostitutes and severely beat one of them this past Summer that might disqualify him, but then we're beyond the realm of words. If there were other opportunities or further damage to party interests these could be considered. Here, where withdrawal is simply losing, much can be justified.*
I forget who, but in one of the past couple threads someone wrote about war footing language. Groups of people speaking themselves into a position where they should and must prepare for war. Politics found this neat little hack with most important election ever, End of Democracy, and many internalized it. I don't know why we should be surprised that people would be willing to forgive their allies who merely say they want to to punish their enemy with their fascist bred babies.
wemptronics
2mo ago
American Democrat, blue no matter who, woke, feminist, BLM, big fan of trans and Gaza at the same time, blank slatist, protects (favored) groups as legitimate victims but doesn't really protect individuals
"Woke, politically engaged 18-35 college educated Democrats" or "Blue tribe idpol illiberals"? "Common Bluesky beliefs" or "Resistance Twitter beliefs" might get you dinged for the same comment, but if you adjusted the context you could probably get away with them. You replaced it with progressive and I think that is the best choice.
I am not sure it does work very well. Any message which comes down officially from the school, no matter if it is about drugs, rape, abstinence, civic pride, the glory of communism or whatever is inherently uncool and cringe. Good luck competing with TikTok.
Not all propaganda efforts are effective or worthwhile. I don't feel compelled to stamp out teenage contrarianism, rebellion, or progressive resistance.
The mandated schooling already does some indoctrination. That indoctrination doesn't spit out perfect American optimists, no, but it doesn't try to do that. I don't think it needs to. Nations shape culture through education all over the world. Maybe my ideal program isn't more myth based story telling in history. The program could be physical, fun, and/or charity focused. I'm open to better ideas.
At its core, pressuring young people into service is fundamentally gerontocratic, democratic only in the "two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner" kind of way.
If we speak only of compulsory military service, then it's more accurate to say using bodies to achieve physical tasks is fundamentally a young man's game. I like the idea of a civil service that ships you around to travel, help with charity or maintenance work, and creates bonds with Americans. FEMA disaster relief that uses our college aged manpower 19 year old. The goal isn't to only reduce propensity for violence, but to increase our commonalities through exposure, shared experience, and civic duty. If achieved, these could do more than reduce a trend of support for political violence.
I am sure the PBs see themselves as ultra-patriotic. Of course, different people had very different ideas about what being an American was all about, from lofty ideas about the relationship between the state and the individual over an entity who protects their god-given right to own other humans to run of the mill nationalism you find in any nation.
It doesn't seem we disagree too much. 'Capital W-ord' isn't a plain construction it's shaded with some irony. I don't consider their branding, self-image, or claim to 'patriot' as legitimate. I explain what I recall of their image in the following sentence and mentioned January 6th prior. "Real American Patriots®" might have been a stronger form. Perhaps a case of thinking myself clever.
This tracks with my experience in a roughly similar age bracket. I'd guess you were in accelerated tracks and likely took AP courses. This is the basic way we teach history: start with basic myths then add nuance as a child develops. Myth making has taken a backseat to nuance at earlier ages, but your mileage may vary. There's a lot of districts with a lot of different teachers and schools. If I had to guess, your experience with history is still the modal experience of American children that attend adequate schools.
Most kids don't get much out of history. Girls, especially, consider history boring and irrelevant. History is old and they are young. Which is why I think you deploy my brainwashing program in a national civics curriculum. That's my thought anyway.
Semi-mandatory is a dangerous line to ride.
I consider semi-mandatory as preferable to an amendment. The US is at least relatively accommodating for conscientious objectors, although that's more a necessity determines grace deal. The cost to living in a powerful nation that likes to wage war is sometimes you're a slave for dumb and unnecessary reasons. That's a fair enough thing to object to.
Lean into sports and competition.
The US still has a relatively healthy recreational sports industry that still can create fads and innovate. Disc golf or pickleball as two examples that come to mind. Underwater hockey might yet take off for you. I'd prefer to subsidize getting the youth outside, but if video games are a reality then competition e-sports are of higher value. Team based games at least provide a way to develop teamwork, communication, and leadership ability. Might even be able to route around the Hitler Youth comparisons by promoting e-sports in addition to real ones.
wemptronics
2mo ago
I am behind reinventing accountability for officials, functionaries, and politicians. Bring back competence while you're at it. The likelihood we bring back competence or accountability depends on what you mean by fighting back. If you mean random, indiscriminate killings of various public figures that increases in frequency over time I don't think this will end up constructive or constitutional. If you have some Washington-Cincinnatus figure in your back pocket to lead the cleansing fire of rebellion, then I say bring him forth let's just vote him in 3 or 4 times. It'll be easier.
A new post then. Below @samiam linked to a National Review piece that mocks a recent article in The Atlantic titled "Left-Wing Terrorism Is on the Rise".
The Atlantic is a center-left institution of American journalism. The not-magazine is capable of pushing certain signals over the hill into respectability status. This signal: it's okay to acknowledge left-wing violence as a problem, because we can remind ourselves the right's stochastic terror was successfully defeated, but not forgotten. How significant is it that a couple CSIS think tank goons can send this signal, and how much impact can they have?
Actually stanching political violence will require America’s leaders to commit to fighting all forms of extremism, not just those associated with their opponents. The Trump administration has prioritized combatting the rise of left-wing terrorism but not right-wing terrorism, which remains a concern despite its decline this year. Developing the programs and expertise to suppress different forms of terrorism takes years, and ignoring a long-term threat to go after a more immediate one could be deadly over time.
In the previous paragraphs the authors set-up their prescription of "programs and expertise" only this time aimed leftward. They justify this by granting the Biden admin (and probably themselves) credit for throwing the book at Oath Keepers and Proud Boys following their January 6th doings. If memory serves the Proud Boys were a group of capital P-atriots who showed up to protests, dared their opposites to do the same, then engaged in fistfights. This is political violence and its escalation can be a concern, but it's not the same risk as a growing number of political assassinations. Assassinations seemingly perpetrated by culture warriors first, not ideologues.
The programs and expertise of think tank goons are unlikely to bring about an effective reversal in cultural trends. Disaffected radicals aren't in the habit of being persuaded by them. I offer two actionable alternatives:
Idea #1: Indoctrination works. Reinvigorate civic indoctrination in schools. Sell this one as renewed civic literacy and try not to pollute it too badly with culture war. Federally fund it as an opt-in for states to participate.
I suspect we do a piss poor job of teaching civics, politics, or anything in the shape of political philosophy in K-12. We do a poor enough job educating kids on subjects we care enough about to measure. We do not even attempt to teach kids to think about social fabric. Instead, we water it down to be meaningless or replace it with with diversity-isms and sin. Then we are surprised the kids go on to be demoralized by short-form videos which they accept as valid belief generators.
Idea #2: Semi-mandatory service. Want Pell grants or Medicare? Better sign up, 18 year old you. You can join the military, or you can go to a national forest to survey land for a year. Compulsory-but-not-compulsory service might sound like state violence to some, and fascism to others, but maybe we can find a few programs in addition to the military that a supermajority could support staffing with conscripted teens.
If the alternative of New Deal conscripts is instead waiting to figure out how to best Balkanize I say we give it a go. What might be other ideas for actionable things to combat the misery and cultural malaise?
Pardon me, then. Black powder may not be much good for security as BP weapons aren't firearms, but they do shoot lead. More importantly the hobby as I understand is fun, has a good following of mature adult men, and a healthy number of groups that share in it.
If you are able to get around, then I'll throw out the proven suggestion for the end of: church! Or, whichever local religious service seems most appealing to you. That is if you do not currently attend one. A community of Christian faith is most unlikely to hack you to pieces with a machetes just because the country has fallen to tatters.
If these things are not possible, then I still think you should rest a little easier knowing that most of us are about as relatively helpless to happenings of this scale. Few of us are as prepared as we can be for the end of coexistence. Fewer can be meaningfully prepared, disability or no, and only a tiny number can change the fate of our nation whatever it may be. It is better to not dwell on it as nothing ever happens.
wemptronics
2mo ago
Because, "lies, damned lies, and statistics." Check the right side Y axis.
It's not less in absolute terms. December 19, 2022 is that first red major dip: https://www.themotte.org/post/240/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week. For whatever reason (technical probably) it is the only thread to receive <20k (16884) views, but it also received many (1806) comments. The graph is created in a way that is meant to show a relationship between comment:views. This weirdo week breaks an otherwise easy to see relationship. Whether this was a smart way or a good way to go about doing this I leave to the floor.
wemptronics
2mo ago
How long does Catbox keep files for? Forever. If you don't want your file to stick around until the heat death of the universe, use Litterbox.
Nice, this is basically why I asked. I use imgur out of ease of use and habit forum posting, but I'm pretty sure they delete them eventually.
wemptronics
2mo ago
Next time I get a hankering I intend to look at unique commenters per thread to see something in the shape of weight of regulars over time. I also have a mild curiosity in word count trends per thread, comment, and top levels.
Small question: Is imgur considered good enough for embedding links to images in posts, or are there better alternatives? The forum's image upload appears unsuitable for the task.
Not a question: Comments+View count for all of TheMotte.org's 158 Culture War threads to date.*
*Reliability not guaranteed.
wemptronics
2mo ago
And what does one do after reaching that conclusion (besides leaving this site, of course, since that runs counter to the basic ethos of the Motte)?
There are users here, mods even, that have reached this conclusion and they still manage to contribute. I don't think there's great arguments to wage the culture war online as a good use of your time unless you get paid for it or your name is JD Vance. A normal citizen moves to a stronghold of their tribe and builds a life there. Maybe purchase a firearm.
Great example.
And some people are paying for recordings where they can hear a woman's tongue unstick from her hard palate.
I don't need to know these things!
I've experienced "low-grade euphoria" observing people doing some task, although rarely. I've experienced frisson from music or speech. I've never seen how ASMR as a media format ties these experiences together or delivers them. The term was apparently coined on a forum in 2007, so it seems more like a cultural memeplex ("brainrot") fueling an industry with paraphilia and fetish branches.
On second thought the Primitive Technology guy could be ASMR adjacent content I've enjoyed.
wemptronics
2mo ago
Very cool, is he still with us? Get'em on here! (But probably Friday Fun not on my Gaza polluted post)
Israel and friends did parachute pallets in late July/early August in coordination with the UAE and Jordan. Footage and image of a pallet. It was criticized for being a dangerous (probably untrue) and token (true) effort.
A big Berlin airlift that aims to feed everyone is doable if the US is supporting in a major way. Israel has maybe 15 Hercules. UAE/Jordan around the same between them. If everyone tries hard, and the US matches with airframes and maintenance support, you get 40 planes.
Running the numbers through the robot, bottleneck is space (only 6-8 pallets per flight) and available airframes. Somewhere between 200-400 flights to deliver one daily ration of ~2100 calories to 2 million mouths. The high numbers were when I tried to get a guesstimate on the GHF's 20kg 3-5 day rations. To get to the low end we need x5 sorties per day from our fleet of 40. If, however, you managed to fill the back of the plane with loose grains of rice until max load, you could cut that down to 60 flights. The robot tried really hard to convince me "you can’t pour loose grain in the cabin" because "loose bulk will shift during flight and create dangerous center-of-gravity," but I am not convinced.
See, Finns on bikes seems appropriate. Swedes? Ehhh...
that motorcycle gangs can be seen as a replication of certain elements of industrial working class existence
Neat. I am only partially surprised this connection has been made. You could also tie in the post-war origins that @HereAndGone provided context for above. The American proletariat returned home from the war to replace the women in manufacturing who they perceived as having emasculating their manhood. Without any other way to ease their suppressed class consciousness or account for their male insecurity they sought out to create alternative recreational hobbies with an industrial identity...
I offer an alternative:
Machine go brrhuum-brrhuum-brrhuum and chuugha-chuugha-chuuugha-chuuugha and vvvvvvrrrRRRRRrrrroooooom. Boy like machine. Boy ride machine. Machine go fast.
On a practical level biker gangs, like many gangs, actually exist less from the financial angle (though that helps) but from (often violent but not always) kids from broken families getting caught up in a group that fills most of the needs a family would normally fill. Brotherhood, purpose, importance, outlets for anger, structure, exhilaration at breaking the rules, all that. It's a fake family in the ways that count, of course, but much like pets filling child-sized holes, it works pretty well overall - that's why it exists.
On one end is La Cosa Nostra. The mafia has all the usual organized crime traits including a shared ethnic identity and occultist rituals. Unlike, for example, Salvadoran gangs the mob was regularly motivated by business interests more than common thuggery. Matt Lakeman has a great blog post on El Salvador which includes a chunk on the history of its gangs. Technically Salvadoran gangs made money like the American mob or any other organized crime outfit. They provided a living for members primarily by extorting impoverished people. Even accounting for the poverty, Lakeman says their violence was usually more street conflict than financial as the mob or cartels might operate. Even guys at the high end of the hierarchy were making peanuts.
I picture biker gangs as landing between the two. Although, there are many instances of serious and significant criminal enterprise involving bikers. The decentralized nature and sheer number of criminals on 2 wheels makes it a difficult comparison. The bonds, friendship, and potential for a surrogate family apply to all of them and to non-criminal clubs, too.
I remember hearing I think this story a month and a half ago
Yeah, I don't know what to think about that guy. He made claims as a "whistleblower," did rounds of press, then claimed a kid was killed who turned out to not be killed and was instead "saved" by Israelis so as to avoid him being murdered to prove he was killed. I never did see anything to refute that counter-counter-propaganda with regards to that dead kid claim. There were other efforts to discredit that guy. Mess, noise, I don't know. Someone's muddy psyop working on me as planned I suppose.
They directly created this cratered, destroyed, lawless zone with arbitrary and changing rules for civilians and a crippling need to import virtually all of its food, and need to take responsibility for it - direct responsibility for it.
Israel doesn't win humanitarian plaudits or reprieves by taking responsibility which could mean a lot of things. Nonetheless, I agree it looks like they meander and coast on current status quo to avoid certain outcomes. They probably prefer it this way than a hypothetical Hamas-less Gaza with a path to statehood. They do have their reasons.
It's interesting that non-Americans and even non-Westerners interested in joining the criminal lifestyle would so often choose a format that is, as said, so very specifically American,
A couple lines I cut mentioned this. As an American, the aesthetic does feel like it should be out of place in the Netherlands (Satudarah), but clearly somewhere like the Mongolian Steppe is natural. I have no idea if Mongolian riders share criminal aspects. Australia also shares (or shared) a comparable individualist frontier spirit and history, along with a similar fascination with bushwhacker outlaws, that it also seems a natural candidate for outlaw bikie gangs.
Uh, do they actually idealize themselves as Christian warriors?
Biker gangs broadly I don't know, but yes I would say this biker club that chooses to get tattoos with Christian iconography, references the crusades, and identifies themselves as an infidel in the land of Islam idealize themselves as Christian warriors rather than pagans.
I nixed a lot of biker musings, but yes the IMC is not a criminal gang. As I understand, even those sharing a national name and a 1%-er patch can still vary a great deal in criminality on a chapter by chapter basis. Anyway I only mean to draw a line between prominent markers across the hobby. Which definitely seems like a thing. The only biker clubs members (big bikes, loud pipes, cool patches) I've spoken with have been nice enough people of the trades, not criminals, but there was no question which tribe they belonged to.*
Damn good way of reducing the possibility of the group being suborned or infiltrated, I'd say.
True. A case in point with the Anthony Aguilar guy whose name and stories got full blast as a "whistleblower" before complications to his credibility.
- I: Red Tribe Criminals
What's the deal with biker gangs?
Hunter S. Thompson followed a biker gang called the Hell's Angels. He wrote a book about his experience and the Angels became the most famous biker club/gang/organization in the world. The romanticization of biker gangs traveled far thanks to the interwoven cross-section of 1960s counterculture that helped popularize it. Groups of American ruffians on two-wheeled transport, sexual revolutionaries, and psychedelic entrepreneurs found commonality in their love of drugs and rebellion to the Man.
It's obligatory to mention that one time in 1969 where the Rolling Stones chose to hire America's most famous biker gang to provide security for a concert with 300,000 attendees. Things went about as well as one might expect. The ignominy of Altamont is sometimes framed as the end of an era. Bay Area hippies played a part in elevating their preferred drug traffickers and bad boy cousin heavies to legendary Americana status-- on par with other household outlaw names.
A romanticized, rugged individualist archetype is a favorite of Americans. If you tack on criminal then, baby, you got a stew goin'. The outlaw who plays by their own rules is not welcome in our towns, they are certainly not welcome around our daughters, but Americans undeniably welcome their stories into our imaginations. Media of the 21st century carries on the tale which, yes, includes dangerous, criminal elements, but also includes loyalty, faith, patriotism.
These are red blooded, freedom loving types of criminals. This is the organized crime profile of the Red Tribe. Someone probably once wondered why the swarthy ethnic criminals get to rent space in American heads -- Mexicans, Italians, even the Jews got their own -- before deciding it was only right that the white, protestant Middle America should collect rent too. Respectable New England derived stock would never have allowed us to entertain a criminal mythos. It was the pioneers, ruffians, and rebels who helped shape the story of the American outlaw, and probably created it. These are the progeny of the Borderers, the trailblazers, underclass, and bushwhackers found far away from refined cosmopolitanism of Yankees.
If you want to talk about biker culture and its intersectional qualities I invite it. I found another intersection reason to flesh out this idle thought last week. All roads lead to Gaza.
- II: What's the deal with the GHF operation in Gaza?
GHF would be the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation that popped up to distribute food aid this year. The organization itself was established in February in anticipation of Israel relieving its own embargo to manage food distribution. In May, only weeks after the program got off the ground, the founding GHF director quit. This was reported as a protest exit. The man himself said he quit as a duty to "strictly [adhere] to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence." This was, well, hmm interesting. As far as I know he never went so far to say, "Israel and the spooks took over," but that'd be one interpretation.
Charities dislike the GHF. The UN dislikes the GHF. The only entities that appear to support the GHF are Israel, the US State Department which throws some cash at it, and a number of evangelical Christian charities. Which is about about where the lines are drawn on more general opinion on Israel and its conflicts. Mike Huckabee, US ambassador to Israel, said private donations helped as well:
"It is not currently being funded largely by the U.S. There are other countries, there are NGOs, there are humanitarian funds, and there are private individuals who have funded it, all of which have requested to remain anonymous. I think they don't want to become the targets of the hate that has befitted those who have tried to do something positive in what is a very difficult situation."
- III: Deus Vult!
What do biker gangs and food distribution in Gaza have in common?
Reportedly there happens to be an American style biker gang social club operating out of Gaza right now. In the spirit Ukraine's Azov Battalion Brigade the BBC reported a story, constructed a story, or both: Anti-Islamic US biker gang members run security at deadly Gaza aid sites.
The firm guarding sites where aid is distributed in Gaza has been using members of a US biker gang with a history of hostility to Islam to run its armed security, a BBC investigation has found.
BBC News has confirmed the identities of 10 members of the Infidels Motorcycle Club working in Gaza for UG Solutions - a private contractor providing security at Gaza Humanitarian Foundation sites, where hundreds of civilians seeking food have been killed in scenes of chaos and gunfire.
Towards the end of the article the BBC expands its claims up to 40 -- out of 320 total -- security contractors from the Infidels Motorcycle Club (IMC) based on an unnamed source. IMC has a website. They present themselves as GWOT veterans who "reject the radical jihadist movement that threatens liberty and freedom around the world. The Infidels MC will support the fight against terrorism as military members, contractors in support of the military, and as patriotic Americans supporting our fighting forces from the homeland." Wayback machine confirms the group's roots online go as far back as 2008 when they wrote:
Brothers in the Military You know what it feels like not to be welcomed in a country that is a third world shit hole. You were probably called an "infidel". Call me an Infidel! That's what I am. Be proud of what you have done. We thank all our brothers that service this country.
The company which recruits the security contractors still has openings for the role. I don't think I am recruiting for a cause, though if anyone does go to Gaza I would be most interested in reading your experience.
I expect there are a number of selection effects that shape the pipeline for Gazan breadline security. The compensation, as I understand, is competitive (~1000 USD/day) but not extraordinarily generous for a you may die, become a news story, or become a war criminal war zone. Even if salary was high enough to attract the most talented professionals, those who want a steady, high paying role might stick with relatively secure jobs on merchant shipping and corporate jobs at home or in the field. The more charity friendly contractors could already work for UN affiliated NGOs in more respectable organizations-- roles unassociated with a barrage of weekly accusations of massacres. The more mercenary, thrill seeking contractors looking to "Get some!" are perhaps more likely far away from a thousand prying media eyes in the middle of Africa. These are merely guesses.
The GHF adjacent (associated or blamed maybe) massacres are reported with some regularity. I personally remain agnostic to specific reports of "hundreds reported killed near aid distribution sites in Gaza." It is a callous position, but given so many interests do not care for the GHF, Israel, or America I have high confidence any damning videos will find little resistance surfacing. So far I am not aware of any that might suggest hundreds are being massacred while waiting for food. I extend the same courtesy to the GHF as well. One instance I recalled from this Summer was a report of Hamas members who allegedly "threw grenades" and injured GHF staff at a distribution site. It is possible Hamas militants did attack GHF staff and charity staff with grenades, although the journalists found and shared a different kind of testimony. That testimony built a picture of armed contractors throwing stun grenades to disperse a pugilistic crowd and 'aid seekers' throwing the stun grenades right back. That all sounds very plausible.
It would be nice to have journalists I could more-or-less trust with access to report on the ground, but we only have "Gen Z Republican influencers" invited by Israel. They don't buy a lot of purchase with me, although some are not wholly discredited.
BBC's reporting does succeed in persuading me to move a peg towards unprofessional shitshow on the Genocide Scale. Hiring members of a social club who idealize themselves as Christian warriors on a crusade would be low on my list. That is if I had the option to prioritize professionals able to run a tight ship in a contested war zone and controversial mission. If one did want to build a group to shoot civilians, or ignore cases of it, then ideological and righteous reasons to keep their mouths shut about crimes would be convenient. For whatever reason, the GHF hired up to a few 1095 fans to carry out their mission. Ukraine has great use for fanaticism and is no position to purge radicals, but the GHF shouldn't share this need. Chicano gangbangers exist in the US Army, but Chicano gangbangers don't make up 12% of its forces. I'm not saying that Crusader Kings enjoyers can't execute a clean charity mission, but...
When I wrote this, there was a brief press push around the story, but since then not much more.
- Why would the GHF choose to employ radicals?
- Does The Motte attract any private security who might guess better? Is it a buyers or sellers employment market for an organization that sets up shop in 3 months?
- Or, maybe this is not that big of a deal?
I could believe that the BBC would write this story no matter if their investigation found 100 or 1 contractors with "crusade" mentions. Reckoning with ones faith in a far and distant land is a thing. Finding people with the same experiences to form a social club is a thing. At best, there's a performative aspect that gets all the blame. These fellas volunteered for a charity mission, are getting paid for it, and the Pope has not issued a decree.
For our domestic national league you are more likely to get punched by "ultras" for not being suitably anti-racist than be punched by a racist. The Hispanic population could probably lay the foundation for a proper hooligan culture, but I don't think it'd be tolerated. Soccer is not the working class sport of choice in the US and the fandom for professional soccer came of age after the suits figured out how to fully commodify sports. Riots and fist fights are considered bad for business here unless you're from Philadelphia.
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