site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 8, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Interestingly, I think the difference between the Special Olympics and the Paralympics is a very good intuition pump for the trans and intersex in women's sports issue.

The purpose of the Paralympics is to increase the range of body types that can experience elite athletic competition - in particular to include disabled ones. So once you qualify, the competition is as intense as it is in the Olympics. So naturally you need rules which are hard to cheese - including about eligibility. Someone who does not have the type of body that the Paralympics are for entering the Paralympics defeats the purpose of the event. (The London 2012 Paralympic programme featured a Paralympian joking that "Paralympians spend as much time trying to get classified as more severely disabled than they actually are as Olympians spend trying to conceal their performance-enhancing drug use" - gaming eligibility is considered the same tier of filthy cheating as doping.)

The purpose of the Special Olympics is to showcase the achievements of an underrepresented group. Although it is still competitive, and people still try to win, the stakes are intentionally lower and the aim is to encourage an atmosphere of friendly competition, sportsmanship, and health and social benefits to non-winning participants. As a corollary, the Special Olympics can be less careful about eligibility. (They allow anyone with a relevant diagnosis from their own doctor to participate without them having to be formally "classified" by a Special Olympics doctor the way Paralympians are.)

Are women's sports more like the Paralympics or the Special Olympics? People involved in elite women's sports are 100% clear that they are like the Paralympics - the aim is to allow a wider range of bodies (i.e. female ones) to compete at an elite level. So allowing male-bodied people who count as women to enter defeats the purpose, because they don't have the right type of bodies. The only question about allowing trans women is whether taking cross-sex hormones that stabilize your testosterone in the female-typical range makes your body effectively female. (And the answer varies by sport) But a lot of advocates for women's sports think of them as more like the Special Olympics - the aim is to showcase the achievements of female athletes in a way which encourages women and girls to exercise more. And in that case, if you think that trans and intersex "women" are part of the underrepresented group you are trying to showcase, then of course they should be able to participate.