cae_jones
9d ago
I'd say it's more "emotionally abusive MLM" than Jim Jones. It isn't the affection that gets me; it's how much it reminds me of the legendary Bay-area Rationalist cuddle culture.
But mostly, after attending a couple workshops and listening to the other people there, I'm increasingly convinced that it's stoking suffering while claiming to improve situations, kinda like what therapy has become, only worse by using charismatic church tactics and emotional intensity to convince people it feels amazing and must therefore be working.
cae_jones
9d ago
Yeah. I'd describe it as slightly LDS-Flavored mystical hippy stuff that is totally not new age, for real you guys.
The main thing it reminds me of is discount Scientology, but way less scientology about it. The guy mentions his books, services, and other workshops ... occasionally. It has the structure of a lot of 30-50min Youtube ads, where they tell you something cool's coming, then spend half an hour on vague anecdotes, but there are also exercises (which are actually more scary than the part where the guy heard his toddler say he was Jesus, once, and did everything short of saying outright that he believes it, still, decades later).
What makes it work for the participants, I think, is a mix of insistent but meaningless afirmations (formally showering people with complements, talking about enough universal love and transcendant joy that he had to have met the cactus man in the 60s or 70s, telling people how awesome their spirit-realm self is). And there's the thing where people are encouraged to work through their issues with conversations crafted to get them crying and/or screaming by the end, incidentally revealing some very sensitive personal trauma at the top of their lungs to the whole room in the process, and ... OK, it's clearly not actually therapudic. Rather, it's getting people high on intense emotional expression, and using that to get them hooked.
Mainly, though, the people who stick around are clearly emotionally or relationally vulnerable, or the boyfriends that said vulnerable girlfriends convinced to join them. My friend says she's grown a lot and improved since she started going, but her resentment toward her family feels like it's grown (I also heard her complaining about how they're encouraging her to get out of it and move back in with siblings, the latter part of which would bother me more if her entire social circle weren't made of people involved in the thing), she's gone from the anxious but determined and genuinely positive person from a few years ago to a generally grumpy and discontent person using "inner child" / "energy work" things to cope. Other people were in much darker places, and it seems like the workshops are the only outlet they practically have, but it does nothing to improve the underlying issues, and, IMO, trains them to get high off expressing their suffering and just kinda hoping that enough love-bombing and emotionality-induced ecstacy will get them to project a more positive countenance for all the people they're encouraged to invite.
Also, a dad brought his 12-year-old daughter, who is already getting pressured by women in the group to come to "the awakening" in a couple months. Cue the first time I've heard a 12-year-old use the "I'm only 12" excuse totry and end an awkward conversation (which backfired and got her showered in more encouragement).
I tried going along with the exercises to see what would happen, but since I don't have daddy/mommy issues and get the impression that Spider-man's mantra was not going to fit in with all the "I AM PERFECT! EXPRESS LOVE!" speeches, and I already suck at communication period, that ... did not go well. I can't theatrically get in front of everyone and loudly weep about regretting ... Hold on, I think I just realized why I'm immune to the bullshit. Namely because it's the distilled and unrestrained essence of the hippy style stuff that was pervasive in 90s edutainment and motivational PSAs, turned up to 9001, and I took that stuff seriously in elementary school, only to unwittingly become a jerk by 11, and spend the next decade progressively recovering from the problematic stuff that was mixed in with my arrogant teenaged worldview. They might have gotten me before, let's say 2010 or so.
Mostly, at this point, it seems like 90% of my friend's life now revolves around this thing, every day she talks about how brilliant the leader is (he emphatically is not and 90+% of what he's said has been garbage at best, but, uh, a less toxic way of communicating that would be helpful ... ), she's taking on a leadership role and started a coaching business, and lost other friends who she brought in and crashed out hard by this point in the process. Also, I haven't asked her how she found it, yet, but she somehow revealed on the second night that her boyfriend's ex (who he was dating whhe first got with her but told neither woman about this) was there. And the only interactions I've any evidence of between her and him is one conversation (facilitated by another member, over the phone) and a few texts. She's actually in my hotel right now, because she let another member have her bed and couldn't get her boyfriend to host her for the night. (Bro, if he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you. And she desperately wants to get married.) Everything she wants mostou of this, as she expressed it to me, is directly harmed by her being involved, and I have no idea whatsoever how to deal with this.
cae_jones
12d ago
So... I'm in the Salt Lake City Area visiting a friend. She's invited me to a workshop, but was worried about doing so because multiple people she's invited before have said it's culty, and some got very upset and went no-contact.
I have not gotten to the workshop yet (that's tonight), but the half-day and ... the past half hour, that I've spent with her and her housemates has ... made it seem very likely that the Culty vibes people were getting were accurate.
Mostly though, I'm concerned about the teenager I'm sitting here listening to get stressed out by all this creepy emotional exercise stuff. She's seemed pretty stressed out the entire time I've been here, and I feel like I should be doing something about some part of this but I can't quite identify what specifically to do that would help.
Also all the dads in the house are worrying me. It is difficult to organize this into the kind of details that would get the point across. The ways people talk about feelings and conversations, the way touch is used... the way both my friend and the afore-mentioned teen hugged me when we parted at the train station last night was disturbingly intense for goodbye hugs (also I have known the younger one like 24h at this moment).
I also want to continue sneakily writing this comment because I was casually invited to sit in on my friend and the teenager's dad's emotional pressurethon and I am ever-so-slightly uncomfortable listening to this weird brute-force ... therapy? Or whatever you'd call it. Which means I'm missing most of what's being said because it feels rude to listen closely but I'm also trying to understand the situation enough to problem-solve ...
... Help?
cae_jones
24d ago
I've spent more time on the floor praying for mercy from heartburn and constipation. Toe-stubbing is worse than ball busting, IMO, although it's easier to stay upright afterward.
Getting hit in the balls is like 30s of ache. Gut stuff is Hell.
cae_jones
24d ago
Youtube will profit considerably. Between the Democrats paying for ads, and how many people get Youtube Premium for the first time to escape the ads...
cae_jones
1mo ago
Does Teddy Roosevelt count? He had broken away from the Republicans to become the founder of the Progressives, and was shot while running for a third term, and like Trump and Reagan, survived. The political landscape at that time was so utterly different, though, I wonder how to count the other assassinations and attempts between Lincoln and Kennedy.
cae_jones
1mo ago
My grandpa (late 80s with COPD) died from covid. The superintendant of my workplace got it and died after being publically anti-lockdown. My older cousin and her husband (both obese, and he smokes heavily) got it, but survived, though she was hospitalized.
My parents got it (after being vaccinated). Got weird neurological things a couple weeks later that got blamed on covid, including my stepmom blacking out while driving (and only avoiding swerving into traffic because my dad's cousin was in the passenger seat and grabbed the wheel in time).
cae_jones
1mo ago
IDK if my experience is relevant, but ...
As part of junior orientation at the math-and-science high school I attended, there was a dance. Having avoided all school dances up to that point, I decided to see what all the fuss was about, and also there were two girls I hadn't spoken to who went out of their way to find me beforehand to be first in line, so w/e. I had no experience or education on anything dance-related other than one squaredancing class in 4th grade PE, so the girls did the leading.
Going from "I bearly know your name" to hands on swaying hips for minutes at a time was kinda traumatizing and I spent the rest of the event curled into a ball on a bench trying to sleep.
This was 2004. This school also had a weird gimmicky rent-a-senior day, and all I remember about that was that someone used this to force an outspoken Republican student to stand in the cafeteria with a pro-Democrat sign at one point, and when I was in earshot, he reacted to one of the people wisecracking at him with "Yeah; we should just give everyone money," in a bitter voice. And I thought, "lol silly hyperbolic republican, acting like democrats want to give-everyone money." The slope seems way less slippery at the top.
cae_jones
2mo ago
This, along with the numerous references to confederate relatives, has left me wondering if Scooby Doo was inspired by the KKK. They were literally Scooby Doo villains, disguising themselves as ghosts to scare people away.
cae_jones
2mo ago
The believers in miracles accept them (rightly or wrongly) because they have evidence for them. The disbelievers in miracles deny them (rightly or wrongly) because they have a doctrine against them… it is you rationalists who refuse actual evidence being constrained to do so by your creed.
No. This implies that everyone has evidence for miracles, and only by faith can they be denied. This is just plain false. Likewise, many who believe in miracles have only books to go on. This feels like a slightly less awful version of the "how can you not believe, when God is clearly pumping divine sensation into your system?" argument.
cae_jones
2mo ago
IDK, my dad owns an electrical company, and while there aren't a ton of old people involved, that does sound about right. Trenches and crawlspaces and dealing with extreme weather because the heat/air can't be turned on until after you've done your part... and also he's the only one there over 40 without either a current or historical substance problem that had conspicuous physiological effects.
He also has gotten in the habit of splurging on an annual company trip to the beach, but that only sounds like an incentive if you don't already live close to a beach.
cae_jones
3mo ago
The concept of changing genders is trivial to imagine without requiring people tell you about it, though?
If you're referring to the pseudosoul thing that Gender has become, fair enough. But children are capable-of going, "Hey, can boys turn into girls?" How disappointed / satisfied / excited / ambivalent any particular child would be to any particular response, IDK.
But yeah, the response to that question should not be "Ooh, come into this secret doctor's office and find out, and if your parents try to stop you, threaten to kill yourself."
cae_jones
3mo ago
Bangkok is kinda known for this sort of thing, so I imagine their are plenty of polyglots in the industry. Also nominative determinism, but I'm sure that's been done to death.
cae_jones
3mo ago
Judo class in college was quite awkward. The men were all bigger than me and surprised by my strength, while the women were feathers and twigs and it felt like doing the moves right might break them. Also judo-pinning women feels rapy and uncomfortable.
Aikido might be a BS martial art, but the women there were athletic lesbians with some sturdiness, and there was no need to throw anyone to the ground and lay on top of them.
cae_jones
3mo ago
Were there a way to mad science up some reproductive capacity without requiring puberty, would opting out then become acceptable?
I half suspect that, between cloning and the Monkey testicular transplant experiment, the mad science could have been there by now, had we been performing the mostly-unethical experiments to master the tech.
cae_jones
3mo ago
Yes this.
But also yes to the "puberty is part of the process" catch 22. Why do you have to die to appreciate who you were/are/will be?
cae_jones
3mo ago
It's embarrassing, really. They just have to acknowledge biology for the 5min it takes to write the definition. Is doublethink that hard, or does doing so threaten their social standing or something?
Well, I got none to lose, so why not?
A woman is a human who fits into a cluster typified by certain traits, such as 2X chromosomes, female reproductive organs (vagina, Ovaries, uterus, etc), breasts shaped to emphasize mammaries, the ability to lactate, conceive gestate and give birth to offspring, or else menstruate when not gestating, and to have achieved physical maturity (maximum height, full development of the mentioned features, etc.
The "cluster [...] typified by" part is how you include XY women, metapausal women, women with mastectemies or hysterectemies, and trans women. We're supposed to be good at word-games; can't we just, IDK, italicize cluster and typified by to make it clear that those are the cheatcode, and so that their friends can see what they're up to instead of canceling them like "OMG you said all women can have babies but what about metapausal XY women with hysterectemies?".
Cause, like, if it's that last thing, fair enough, but you do kinda forfeit the claim to being the smart team under those conditions. But if my experience is anything to go by ... yeah, it's that one. :(
cae_jones
3mo ago
Getting overloaded with low quality info on the state of anti-aging products. What actually works for what? Senolytics? Memory thingies? Else?
cae_jones
3mo ago
This description gives me Wheel of Time vibes, and that is terrifying. Granted, in WoT, it wasn't the women driving the men mad, but it was their failure to work together that tainted Saidin, drove male channelers mad, and led to the Breaking of the World. And if there's a single madman who could break the world ... it'd be the Dragon Elon Musk. ... Wait, what was Ishamael's true name, again? 😱
cae_jones
3mo ago
There are lots of ways to read and write text other than the default font by unaided eye. There are laptops and stuff. If you have access to windows, check out the Ease of Access Center for the freebies.i
cae_jones
3mo ago
They're personally blaming Trump for every airplane accident.
... In Canada.
Is there a genre of videos that shows the same time period, or even the same events, as the most partisan partisans on either side imagine it to be, in sequence? If not, there should be. It'd be entertaining. Or places, even; scenes of what each side thinks of when they picture San Francisco / Texarkana / DC / ...
cae_jones
3mo ago
In a somewhat Joker kind of way I think it's more life-affirming to cut these government jobs. Between market forces for labor and more regular job changes, this guy would be dragged kicking and screaming into finding a job that paid him what he was actually worth.
Don't scare me like that. Now I'ma hafta go buy like 10 lotto tickets to counterbalance this idea.
(The much smaller, fewer numbers, state lottery with a mere 6 figure payout. The odds are way better. I'm stupid, but if I'm throwing money away, I at least wnt to stack the odds if possible.)
No really; I struggle to think of brainwork of actual value that I could be doing. The ability to code does not make one a worthy asset anymore. On top of which, all I'd do with a spare million is ... IDK, hire someone from TeamFourStar to voice minor NPCs in my crappy game, and throw a bunch of it at creaters and charities who are underfunded. I'm not sure that's worth uprooting my life for a soul-sucking desk job at a tech city or whatever. My local CoL is fantastically low and family's nearby. My "house" finally seems livable, after all the work gone into it, but it's still not worth more than I could make by saving for a couple two-or-three years. Also my resume is mostly a bunch of crappy audio games that are not on Github.
... Why haven't I put my codebase on Github, anyway? Oh, right; most of it's redundant.
cae_jones
4mo ago
agents, given scaffolding that allows them more human reasoning (long-term memory storage, frequent reminders of their objective, plugins that give them access to the internet etc.) are generally pretty useless and incapable of solving even very basic programs. And they usually go mad eventually.
In fairness to AI, the internet drives many humans mad, too.>
cae_jones
4mo ago
Dang, I wish we had some sort of organization that would contextualize comments like that so that less-informed people (like me) could come to a better understanding of the world. Lol, like that would ever happen, right?
Is expecting this to turn into an ad for Ground News a sign that one spends too much time on Youtube? :/
I get the impression that the DR largely is the antiwar left, who got kicked out of the left because reasons.
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