zoink
10d ago
Were talking about going to a bar. I was in Vegas for one of the Stanley Cup matches and I'm thankful the event I was there for overlapped the game because would have been a debate whether or not to drop the money.
Yeah, sports bar or one of the bars on the beach. This specific beach town is known for being safe. We will be visiting bars outside of this frequently.
zoink
10d ago
He’s the husband of my wife’s best friend. I went to his wedding, helped his soon-to-be sister-in-law move with him, and I’m obviously going to his sister-in-law’s wedding. My own wedding was held at his in-laws’ house. His father-in-law just texted me late last night inviting me to a mezcal tasting tonight in preparation for the trip. There's a social question, do I stand up my trivia team tonight to grab drinks with the very wealthy guy and partake of his crazy expensive alcohol collection?
I’d be completely fine going solo, but I doubt he knows that. If the roles were reversed, I would consider it an obligation to at least make an appearance under similar circumstances.
The actual event itself is a fairly minor thing in my mind. Like being close to totality for an eclipse and not making a relatively low effort to go watch it. Being in Wisconsin and not having a cheese curd. Being in Hawaii and not going to a beach. These aren't moral failing but I'm going to squint at you.
zoink
10d ago
point is that not everyone shares your view of what a good time is
Obviously and I would even venture it's the vast majority of people.
it's narcissistic to view this as some kind of personal sleight.
I'm not so post-modern to think everyone's idea of a good time has equal value. Do I think this person is a degenerate for skipping out on an experience? Of course not. I will happily take them up on their offer of a quiet cocktail another night. If he asked me to game with him some night, or do a quick DnD campaign I would even though it's not my highest preference for an evening.
zoink
10d ago
And if that choice makes people happier/more content/whatever else, that's great one should 100% live that life.
Socializing is a lot like eating well or exercising. Some people naturally stay thin and fit, while others are just really lucky and actually love working out.
If someone is content with their life, doesn’t get lonely, or in another example has no problem with the reduced mobility that comes with obesity, no skin off my back. On The Motte, I tend to believe people are willing to accept the trade-offs of their actions (or lack thereof). For society at large, I highly suspect that’s generally not true. I see the "male loneliness epidemic" as very similar to obesity. Society used to heavily incentivize not becoming obese, just as it heavily incentivized building and maintaining social circles. Now modernity has removed the guardrails, so people pursue short-term desires and later lament the long-term outcomes.
zoink
11d ago
I literally was thinking about the hot crazy scale and thinking about some kind of skill coolness factor. Like if you're really high skill in specific areas you're still cool even if you're lame in a bunch of others. Doesn't quite fit.
I'm taking the piss a bit. I was definitely a loser up until Sr. year of highschooler. The guys that were bullying me got kicked out - so that was helpful - and I decided I was going to start with working on eye contact which I couldn't even maintain with guys. That's where I push back on the effort aspect, it took constant concerted effort, deep introspection, on my part not to be a loser.
I think about it through a lens that Scott presents with fashion and cellular automata, and I often consider myself to be second tier in many areas. It put's me in the place of being able to conceptualize greatness and realizing just how far away it is.
I have some pretty top tier friends and acquaintances in athletics and intelligence.
Much more limitedly I have rolled with some effortlessly cool guys. Groups form around them from the ether, seeing that look in a women's eye when it clicks that she wants him. They're the people I feel the most distance from.
Even more being a dad, if an easy interesting opportunity presents itself, I think one should take it. Set an example for the kids.
zoink
11d ago
For me not getting into it is a little like this meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-wish-i-was-at-home-they-dont-know
You're in the party even if you stay in your room. Every goal, every attempt, every penalty or lack their of you're going to hear. Don't just stand in the corner.
zoink
11d ago
Sure if you got something better to do. Maybe this is context that lacking but it's Sayulita for 11 days. The match is 19:00. We will be availing ourselves of the local fair extensively. I wouldn't be surprised if they projected it on to Teotihuacan (not really) Plaza Garibaldi you could do both and it's gonna be crazy during the match, probably more intense than what I could find. For the vast majority of Mexico this is gonna be the only game in town (see what I did there, so subtle).
zoink
11d ago
I am not cool - extra not cool now that I have kids - but it's two hours. I'll be spending way more time with my family than normal. Most likely my son is going to be jumping right there with me, my wife jumping with my daughter strapped to her. I would not judge a father in my circumstances for not being in the mix, this dude, not a dad.
zoink
11d ago
Maybe it's what primed me for thinking it's obvious to go out, I was in Rio when they won gold and even though I was in my room (probably still should have found a way but Barra was locked down and it was a massive pain in the ass to get in and out) that was still pretty nutty.
You are not in the minority of people I know in real life. As I asked here, I asked many people in real life and it was unanimous that it's - at best - odd not to go. Something to keep in mind with certain takes on this board.
zoink
11d ago
A big part of why I'm taken aback is that, for me, it doesn’t take any thought. It’s a given: if you don’t have some other obligation, it’s what pretty much every other person I know in real life would do.
Yes, many truly cool people don’t put much thought into it. Though I have a strong suspicion that even at the highest levels - naturals like elite athletes included - they’re putting more thought into it than people realize.
But alas, I am not effortlessly cool, I'm a naturally a loser. How does one go form loser to not loser. I don’t see a clear path from loser to not-loser without thinking through some of these things, even if truly “cool” remains out of reach. Maintaining social circles takes effort if you’re not naturally cool - and even for most people who are. Cool extroverts may enjoy the effort, which makes it easier, but it’s still effort. I believe this is even more important in the face of modernity and with younger generations.
Of course, being a try-hard is the death of cool. I won’t list my escapades (that would be try-hard), but I rarely seek them out purely for their own sake. I’m already doing something and being somewhere, so I’ll put in the effort to seek out something “cool” to do. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t put thought and make deliberate choices in those circumstances.
So if I’m in Mexico, what’s the “coolest” experience I can have on a given day with very little extra effort? It’s giving myself the opportunity to be jumping up and down with a bunch of beautiful people, beer held high, chanting “Olé, Olé, Olé.” I can have a quiet cocktail (what was offered as an alternative) or read a book in bed any evening.
[citation needed] ;)
I would actually pushed back on that pretty heavily. You could certainly find yourself in a social circle that is not suitable. If you're trad and all your friends are swingers. And I hold opposite gender coded stuff in a differently if you're heavily unbalanced getting drug to your wife's stuff that's a problem.
I have no qualms with someone that wants to live a loner life, have their online friends, a few people they play board games with etc. But I suspect that a lot of people saying that's all they want start complaining about - and they do deserve a lot of it - the foids.
If he goes out with other people or even solo...
I certainly I'm a massive loser. I hang out here, asking loser questions.
zoink
11d ago
I fail to see what having no interest in crowds and sports has to do with being a loser.
It doesn't in and of itself. Correlation, but certainly not a given. I know lot's of guys that hate crowds and have no interest in soccer, every one of them in my circle would recognize this as a rare opportunity to do something interesting - something that "cool" people think is "cool". It's being unwilling to be uncomfortable for a limited period of time to partake in a rare enough opportunity that tends towards "loser" behavior.
I think baseball sucks as much as soccer, I don't live near a MLB team so when I am on a work trip in a city with one and get invited to an MLB game, I go. Because it's a semi-rare opportunity.
Anecdote from my freshman year of college. I found myself turning down invites because I liked watching pirated shows, and films. A few weeks in I decided to never turn down an invite unless I had a very good excuse. Not disappointed in that choice at all.
There are people that I would consider "cool" who would turn down such and invite, but got to amp up the "coolness" in some other areas to compensate.
This is a dumb "question" I'm just flabbergasted in a low key situation. Going to Mexico for my wife's friend's wedding. Taking my small kids, gonna be something...
Happens to be down in Mexico for Mexico's first World Cup knock out match. I don't like soccer it's for the poor's but this is falls under "few in a life time opportunities" in my mind. The one guy I kind of know on the trip turned me down going out to watch the game (at a bar, or sport garden) because he hates crowds and sports. I've always struggled not to judge this guy as a loser (sulks around and whines a lot), this really doesn't help. Literally I don't think any other person I know would turn down an invite like this. Am I being too harsh?
zoink
11d ago
To this day it's the only movie I ever walked out of after paying for,
Same, only movie I've walked out on.
zoink
12d ago
The social technology for lifelong celibacy has fallen from favor.
It has but they should take another look: https://carmelitegothic.com/
The fifth clip is monk cowboys... https://www.carmelitemonks.org/index.php
I think most men lack it as well but those that don't just tear it apart. I think it was Generation Kill where I learned that a tactic when ambushed is to leave the vehicles and "assault through" the ambush. 1st Recon had zero KIA.
Because most mass shooters are low agency, low competence (Exceptions: Tarrant, Paddock, Breivik). High agency competent people have greater tradeoffs, beware if that changes.
zoink
12d ago
Videos:
A combined angle synchronized of three videos: https://x.com/The_Tradesman1/status/2069354541657804927
Closer distance, clearest view of female cop probably shooting the civilian (reported a Rabbi?): https://x.com/Breaking911/status/2069136830054727705
Longer distance: https://x.com/Breaking911/status/2069111728852414927
zoink
17d ago
None of that contradicts that wisdom and good decisions gets almost everyone in the US pretty far in life.
Yes, wisdom and good decisions can get you pretty far in life on occasion but that isn’t the whole story or even most of it.
Yes, it is almost entirely is.
- get at least a high school degree
- get a full-time job
- get married before having children
97% of young people who follow all three steps are not poor as adults
Got all kinds of thoughts around that stuff, if wife is breastfeeding a new born, and the kid's being a hard ass, it may be constant grind to keep everyone's head above water. I'm blessed and my kids are great sleepers and usually chill. My wife admits I do more than my fair share of work around the house so I've got no qualms taking a few hours for myself every now and then. Most of the time I take the toddler with me because he's a cool guy. When he's old enough to comprehend making sure he fully understands the trade-offs concerning the choices he makes is a reason I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff.
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