This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's been a dead doctrine for a while. To the dismay of many a Liberal including myself. You either move on and embrace post-liberal means of maintaining what you value in Liberalism (for me it's natural rights, for others it's equality under the law, etc), or you go insane (like James Lindsay).
But the foundations of the ideology are now too rotten to support any serious political movement. Even Trump's coalition (the most classical liberal looking movement we have today ironically) is made up of mostly people who don't give a rat's ass about liberalism qua liberalism. The limitations of treating everyone like Robinson Crusoe are now all to apparent.
Most things that claim themselves liberal today have gone through this commonly remaked on process where taking an ideology to its logical conclusions inverts it. Neoliberalism is a quasi-feudal oligarchy that discards constitutions at will, all in the name of "democracy" and "freedom" not the ideas, but the words.
What sort of Liberal civilization would let government arbitrarily lock up its population for years, censor the press and the public square, and attempt to force people to take medical actions against their will? If Covid didn't shatter the illusion, it's because it was shattered already. The story the West tells itself about it's legitimacy rings hollow, which is why its ruling class is going to have to change the story or face counter-elites.
Liberalism indeed is in dire straights. The continental liberalism in tradition of Rousseau was proven to be easy target for subversion by progressive/woke or even worse leftist thought. Hell, look at what happened during the latest convention selecting presidential candidate of libertarian party in USA. The classical liberal outlook was basically frozen in time with latest true champion being John Stuart Mill. It is seriously outdated and did not update its concept to many modern challenges for example what to do about the digital revolution: are your personal data your private property in the old term? What to do about monopolies providing goods and services via subscription models accompanied with uncomprehensive sets of user agreements?
Nevertheless I do have sympathy for James Lindsay, he at least acknowledges all these problems.
So do I but he does not provide solutions. His debates with Carl Benjamin demonstrate to me an impasse in his ideological position. The latter is actively trying to make up something that would uphold Liberalism's best (in his conception). But Lindsay is stuck, and his only move seems to be lashing out in a frankly completely futile manner against people who have learned not to be kowtowed by such methods. People who are close to him even.
Sectarianism is political suicide.
This is a very good point. The naive optimism of 90s libertarians prevented them from formulating a true social project because they believed that connecting people and liberating information would suffice to create utopia. Yet another poisoned fruit of Rousseau, I might add.
Yet, there is space to create something like this now. Technocapitalist interests would be willing to adopt something like this, and the tools to introduce private property in cyberspace are now real. Balaji's project may very well be called a new Liberalism. But whether that will pan out remains to be seen, and the philosophical work to justify such a vision remains lacking, or libertarian rather than liberal.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link