This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If there is a hell, then Höss in the very lowest pit, and while nobody deserves to be in hell, I can hardly think of anyone who tried harder to deserve to be there. When the utilitarians break hell, his kind shall be the last to be freed.
The amount of utility loss Höss has caused is unfathomable. A comic book villain could rape and murder a five year old every day of his bloody life, and still the QALY loss of his lifetime would be less than what Höss and his team achieved in a month. He had every opportunity to regret his actions during his tenure of running the hell he had created on earth. If god wanted him to repent, then every cry of a child he murdered was a call to repent, and he ignored them all. He did not try to blow up the gas chambers, or take his own life, or even ask to be transferred to the front to serve Hitler without directly getting his hands dirty.
And then in a prison cell, he suddenly discovered that he had done grave wrong and asked god for forgiveness. Why did the Soviets even give him a priest? And if I had been his confessor, I would have told him that a million murders were a bit about my pay grade, but that I would be very happy to forgive him a dozen murders of his choice, and let him try the Nuremberg defense at the pearly gates for the others.
Of course, the evilness of giving comfort to Höss pales compared to what the Catholic Church did for other Nazis. The same Church which had barely lifted a finger to try to stop the genocides of Hitler was not only willing to forgive famous Nazis such as Adolf Eichmann or Joseph Mengele, they were willing to bet all their moral authority on helping them to escape worldly justice as well. Thanks to Christian forgiveness, Mengele, the Nazi doctor died in freedom in Argentina, and Eichmann only got his due because the Israeli were less forgiving than the Vatican.
Anything the Catholics did after the ratlines is small fries compared to the evil they did back then. I mean, if Christian forgiveness means smuggling mass murderers to Argentina, then it obviously also means shielding priest from worldly authorities and enabling them to continue to sexually abuse children. As long as they confess from time to time, a few raped kids will not prevent them from joining Höss in the Catholic conception of paradise.
Few convert for glorious reasons.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link