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felipec  unbelief  1yr ago (felipec.substack.com)   3251 thread views

2+2 = not what you think

felipec.substack.com

Changing someone's mind is very difficult, that's why I like puzzles most people get wrong: to try to open their mind. Challenging the claim that 2+2 is unequivocally 4 is one of my favorites to get people to reconsider what they think is true with 100% certainty.

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You cut out the part where you specified (2+2=4) in standard arithmetic before I answered. That's the misrepresentation.

Since you seem to have hard time understanding context, I'll repeat my actual statement with the context explicit:

(2+2=4 in standard arithmetic) and (2+2=0 (mod 4)) are not the same statement.

With that cleared up, any further questions?

You cut out the part where you specified (2+2=4) in standard arithmetic before I answered. That's the misrepresentation.

False. That is understood, since you argued that (2+2=4) is always standard arithmetic, so no context is necessary.

(2+2=4 in standard arithmetic) and (2+2=0 (mod 4)) are not the same statement.

This is precisely what I interpreted, there is zero misrepresentation.

Now that you have repeated what I already said, except making the standard arithmetic explicit, instead of implicit, let's go back to the context that you keeping trying to run away from:

You very clearly said:

Did you just claim less than 0.0001% of people think 2+2=4?

As I pointed out numerous times, by 2+2=4 in this context you meant in standard arithmetic, which is what I interpreted correctly from the start, and I stated to you multiple times already.

You finally accepted that (2+2=4 in standard arithmetic) and (2+2=4 (mod 4)) are not the same statement, therefore even if 99.9999% of people think (2+2=4 in standard arithmetic) that does not equate to 99.9999% people thinking (2+2=4 (mod 4)), because they are different statements (as I already explained).

Therefore when you said "We think 4, 4 is 0", you were wrong.

Your statement expanded is "We (99.9999% people) think 4 (in standard arithmetic), 4 (in standard arithmetic) is 0 (in standard arithmetic)", which is clearly wrong. Period.

you argued that (2+2=4) is always standard arithmetic

No, I didn't. If you believe otherwise, cite where I said it. Or stop misrepresenting me.

As I pointed out numerous times, by 2+2=4 in this context you meant in standard arithmetic

So you're "pointing out" to me what I meant. Have you considered that I can read my mind better than you can? After all, when someone talks about your position elsewhere , you're quick to call it out as assumptions. And when I offer clarification, you ignore it, only to repeat your strawman two posts later.

Obviously I meant "with unspecified context", because that was the example we were talking about. Yes, people don't know you're sneakily talking about modular arithmetic - but "2+2=4" is still true, so people are giving the correct answer, despite the confusion.

That was my clarification. I've had a lot of patience with you, but I can't really have a discussion with someone who talks to their own caricature of me and ignores what I actually say.

if 99.9999% of people think (2+2=4 in standard arithmetic) that does not equate to 99.9999% people thinking (2+2=4 (mod 4))

You weren't asking about 2+2 (mod 4) though. You were asking "2+2=" without context, and people answer "4", which is correct.

If they interpret the meaning of the string "2+2=" different than you, that's not anyone being wrong, that's just a misunderstanding caused by your bad communication. But luckily the misunderstanding doesn't matter, because the answer is correct in either interpretation.

You weren't asking about 2+2 (mod 4) though.

No, I was asking about 2+2 (no context), as I have been made it clear countless times.

You were asking "2+2=" without context, and people answer "4", which is correct.

False. 2+2 (standard arithmetic) is different than 2+2 (mod 4), and 4 (standard arithmetic) is different than 4 (mod 4).

After many questions you finally accepted that:

(2+2=4 in standard arithmetic) and (2+2=0 (mod 4)) are not the same statement.

Are you going to backtrack from that claim?

No, I was asking about 2+2 (no context), as I have been made it clear countless times.

You're confused. I'm the one who pointed out several times that your "2+2" was lacking context.

I'm glad we're on the same page now though.

2+2 (standard arithmetic) is different than 2+2 (mod 4), and 4 (standard arithmetic) is different than 4 (mod 4).

And "2+2=4" is correct both in SA and (mod 4).

2+2 (standard arithmetic) is different than 2+2 (mod 4), and 4 (standard arithmetic) is different than 4 (mod 4).

And

Is that an admission that what most people think (4 (standard arithmetic)) is different than (4 (mod 4))?

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