This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
In diverse low-trust spaces conflict theory and it's associated strategies (defect, defect, defect) simply wins, or at least loses less. I feel like we've discussed the whys on this place for a full decade at this point, but basically you have to at least have a space in which people agree on fundamentals like good faith discussion before you can have moderate and rational discussion. Zero point in wasting your breath trying to convince someone that isn't actually open to being convinced. Add some dead internet theory in: corporations, state actors, random universities in switzerland with access to LLMs, manipulating votes and discussion and anonymous open internet forums are basically the worst possible place to find mistake theorist type discussion.
The motte is sheltered a bit by it's obscurity and it's adherence to strict mean girls, minus the social clique formation, inspired rules. Where conflict that is indirect, hidden under a veil of verbosity and mostly about group status seeking (QCAs) is preferenced. Though this is really still a conflict theory space, just with faux mistake theory employed to mask aggression and maintain status.
If you want good discussion it's best to just make some friends that like politics, pretty much even the most brain wormed internet troll will communicate in your preferred mistake theorist style with people they trust. Or you could try to find some closed communities where access is invite only, maybe on discord or something. You should only go to open forums when you want to verbally punch someone in the face and be punched in the face.
More options
Context Copy link