site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 4, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

3
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Personally, I would start neither a romantic relationship or therapy with an LLM which is not running on hardware I control.

As the saying goes, if you are not paying (enough) for it, you are not the customer, you are the product.

LLMs are still (I think) in the gold-rush stage where venture capital can substitute for balancing the budget, and it is more important for firms to build a userbase than it is to adequately monetarize that user base. You don't want to be the firm which ran a sustainably-priced service and thus got very little in the way of user interactions when other firms will burn through money just to gain that experience.

So your chats are what you are really paying to the AI company. They will be relentlessly mined to train the next model, but probably also be sold, get stolen or offered to the NYT as part of a settlement.

On the opposite side, I think that for romantic or therapy roles having the latest and greatest model is probably overkill. Unless you are extremely sapiosexual, you are unlikely to care how many of the IOC problems your virtual partner can solve. Assuming that the LLM has read all the relevant books on therapy during training, I think being a good therapist is more about Wisdom than Intelligence. Ideally you would want separate RLHF for that role, though. Virtual assistants are probably a bit too much yes-men. WIS is required both to know when your patient is lying to themselves, and also what the best speed to clear up the lies is. I honestly do not know if recent LLMs have made progress with that, and the Open Weight models might serve as a good-enough basis to run on your gaming rig. Only seeing the text inputs of the patient instead of a video feed might be limiting, though.