site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 19, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

My impression is that judges who would agree with your conclusion tend to be constitutional originalists. They are committed to the proposition that the term "cruel and unusual" in the constitution means the same thing now that it did when the constitution was adopted. Since punishments like hanging or firing squad were permissible then, it's hard to see how "drug cocktail that puts you to sleep then stops your heart" is "cruel and unusual" by comparison.

This seems like it's pairing originalism with a decidedly modern manner of comparison. It seems quite plausible to me that someone from 200 or 300 years ago could find firing squads, hangings and even beheadings normal but at the same time find the way in which the administration of a lethal injection (performed, from what I have seen, by medical professionals who engage in all the ceremonium that is usually part of their job, carefully sterilising needles and all) perverts the life-giving medical process to kill rather than cure (in an apparently non-violent and thereby all the more insidious way) to be unusual and revulsive and therefore cruel by virtue of the shame being killed in such a fashion ought to bring upon everyone involved.

My understanding is that arguments along the lines you describe in your comment have been advanced (unsuccessfully) before the Supreme Court before. Some states have passed laws reintroducing execution by firing squad due to issues with accessing lethal injection drugs and out of a more general concern about the unavailability of lethal injection as a method of execution.