This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I’ve said before that I don’t think these people should be fired, and I will expound in a way that will convince no one: antifragility. Since this issue seems to be coming up with a lot of teachers, I’ll focus on them.
I don’t think conservatives know how to effectively address the problem. In the long term, simply firing the “dumb” ones can actually make things worse. Because of that, I like that teachers feel free to got mask off. It has been very difficult to convince normies how many extreme leftists have infiltrated our institutions, and I want to know which teachers are radical leftists.
I suppose I shouldn’t jinx myself, but I’m confident in my ability to have more influence over my kids’ values than their teachers do, and I want to bring other parents along with me.
Now if we want to actually crush the entire institution of public education then I'm here for it.
I have actually been thinking about this recently in some sense. For example, school shootings.
It is a FACT that you are more likely to die driving your way home from work than in a school shooting (I haven’t examined this in a more rigorous way but think it still would be true). We would call someone afraid to drive home irrational because it impacts your quality of life quite a bit. Yet if I tell a liberal friend of mine that it’s in the best interests of students to play down (even if inaccurately!) the threat of school shootings because the net cost of generalized fear to learning is worse, they look at me like I’m crazy. But I’m pretty sure I’m right, and I’m also pretty sure that in a few decades people will agree with me.
Humans are not designed to live in a a constant state of fear. It’s physically and psychologically damaging. This is incontrovertible. Kids in particular are way too good at picking up the “vibes” of adults. So honestly everyone who works with kids should be extra vigilant about what vibes they give out. If kids feel “permission” to feel constant fear, that unhealthy.
I realize this might not be what you mean when talking about promoting “antifragility” but it seemed related to me. There’s some line where we cross over from being understanding and empathetic to losing a certain degree of thick skin necessary. Just like how phobias are worsened by validating them.
Semi-caveat to teaching “thick skin”: research indicates that teaching children the world is safe, just, interesting, that people are fundamentally nice, etc. improves their life outcomes. It turns out that at least when establishing base primal beliefs, in aggregate there is no such thing as teaching a child to have a too-positive outlook having a drawback (kids tend use these rosy beliefs more like a prior than a rule, which limits downsides).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link