In Paul Fussell’s book on class (I think), he says that people are really worried about differentiating themselves from the class immediately below them, but largely ignorant of the customs and sometimes even existence of the classes above them. When I found SSC, and then The Motte, and stuff like TLP, I was astonished to find a tier of the internet I had had no idea even existed. The quality of discourse here is . . . usually . . . of the kind that “high brow” (by internet standards) websites THINK they are having, but when you see the best stuff here you realize that those clowns are just flattering themselves. My question is, who is rightly saying the same thing about us? Of what intellectual internet class am I ignorant now? Or does onlineness impose some kind of ceiling on things, and the real galaxy brains are at the equivalent of Davos somewhere?
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Great question and interesting observation by Fussell — I'll have to checkout that book.
About that observation: it reminds me of something Yud said back on LessWrong. I forget the quote and context completely, but the gist is that you can recognize intelligence below your own, but not above. This has disturbing implications if true, and I think it might be. Imagine snatching a random /r/politics user and plopping them down in our main thread. What do you think they would think of it? Would they be amazed at our level of detachment and erudition? Our attention to detail, willingness to take criticism, and ability to root out bad actors? Or would they be totally disinterested and even consider us the dumb ones? I think the latter is more likely.
So, given that there probably is a more intelligent forum out there, do you think we would even be able to appreciate it if we found it? It's interesting to ponder.
Another question: it what ways could this place be better?
As @Lykurg points out, Yud's assertion is that one cannot accurately rank people much smarter than oneself – not that they cannot be recognized to be smarter. I can only take Fermi's word that von Neumann was way smarter than himself whereas Fermi's top student was dumber, but in physics all of them would be able to pass any reasonable exam I could devise with perfect marks; and the same logic can apply to holistic subjective estimation that doesn't rely, again, on ranking metrics devised by the superior group.
As for forums, my impression is that TheMotte is near the top of open doors generalist pique waistcoat lounges and has a nice epistemic culture, but it's not supremely smart. Extropians were apparently a lot smarter. Lesswrong is still smarter (if misguided). CredibleDefense or WarCollege or something, last I checked, were smarter in high-tier threads (if less effortful), and their domain-specific discussions were not marked by rationalist first-principles overconfidence we still suffer from (although it's way better than generic internet honor culture of always-doubling-down). Same, but even more unfit for generalist discussions, in professional spaces or in competitive game communities; and there happen to be high-trust smoking rooms adjacent to those spaces, but you'll need a pass. Rdrama is too smart/too frenetic/not autistic enough for me so I can't say much, but I can tell they have Yud's ancient vampires.
I'd say even sneerclub is smarter than us – because it takes some brainpower to convince oneself of a contradictory world model when you already have a better one and can comprehend it. Twitter subnetworks can be frighteningly smart, even if prone to clowning.
The smartest people I knew only bother with online discussion once in a blue moon, in ever.
I suppose +5SD freaks who aren't content/able to fuck bitches and dominate their profession or rock international politics or something discover each other through Cicada 3301 tier mind-fuckery, steganography and darknet webrings.
This reminds me:
A community without such rituals cannot be truly big-brained.
Well, I suspect open doors generalist forums do end around this level; and that even we are viable only because we're obscure and pretty much nobody comes in.
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