Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 164
- 2
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
We do, but there aren't any Chinese brands with American equivalents that are sold for a fraction of the price. The "Chinese brands" are relatively obscure and are built to compete with American internet direct brands. You can't get anything basic from them like OP is looking for. There are also cheap Chinese bikes available on Ali Express but the listings don't mention any of the specs, which means they are likely the equivalent of the bikes you can get for $200 at big box stores that use extreme cost-cutting measures to get the price that low and aren't recommended for use as anything other than toys that you're willing to toss if they break—getting these repaired means paying more than the bike is worth to fix something that is likely to break again in the near future.
Chinese cars aren't this bad quality-wise, but I think the idea that Chinese EVs would dominate the US market but for tariffs is overblown. Yes, the BYD Seagull only costs $10,000 in China. No, it isn't anything an American would ever buy. It doesn't meet American safety standards without substantial modification, but that aside, the small size, 75 hp motor, and 150 mile range are nonstarters here. The bare-bones Mitsubishi Mirage is only $16,000 (and was $10,000 not that long ago), and it isn't exactly flying off the lot. the BYD Dolphin, essentially a Seagull modified to meet first-world safety standards, costs more like $25,000 and isn't exactly popular in markets where it's sold. I know this is a substantial digression but I hear this a lot about Chinese cars, but I'm just not buying it.
It was dropped from the US market last year.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link