site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 23, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

They definitely ruled that there was no available pre-enforcement relief, practically if not explicitly, which is all I'm contending.

I don't think that's an accurate summary :

The Court concludes that the petitioners may pursue a pre-enforcement challenge against certain of the named defendants but not others.

or

Even aside from the fact that eight Members of the Court agree sovereign immunity does not bar the petitioners from bringing this pre-enforcement challenge in federal court, everyone acknowledges that other pre-enforcement challenges may be possible in state court as well. In fact, 14 such state-court cases already seek to vindicate both federal and state constitutional claims against S. B. 8—and they have met with some success at the summary judgment stage.

The crux was instead that the Court turned away the sort of response that the plaintiffs would have found sufficient, whether in a pre-enforcement context or otherwise. The plaintiffs wanted -- with reason! -- an injunction binding either all court clerks from accepting, or all individual Texans, from filing cases.

That's why I said "practically if not explicitly." The only entities SCOTUS allowed the pre-enforcement challenge to go ahead for were a set of state licensing officials. No injunction on them would actually have any impact on the civil suits that are at the core of SB8.

SCOTUS only allowed the pre-enforcement challenge against state licensing officials in that case. But even Thomas pointed to extant state pre-enforcement challenges leading to preliminary injunctions by name, and that specific case he cited (correctly, imo) resulted in a state-wide declaratory judgement before the end of the year focusing on the procedural aspects and edit: eventually got a temporary injunction against the named plaintiffs and affiliates in that case (though I can't find the current disposition).

Fair enough, I guess I'm reluctant to farm out the vindication of federal constitutional rights to state courts (though I recognize that has been common practice). I suppose state courts (at least in Texas) seem to have the benefit of issuing declaratory judgements.