This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
A recent tragic event: Mother accused of killing three children in Massachusetts
The Culture War angle: Following this event some TikTok accounts have released videos in support of the mother and voicing concern over mothers and their mental health, leading to discussion. Examples: https://postimg.cc/NKpX61ty, https://postimg.cc/vxT8d6jK, https://postimg.cc/CnnyNC9w, https://postimg.cc/8FvttKzK, https://postimg.cc/TK6wKhWK, https://postimg.cc/K3cXXSKv
Considering the nature of the crime I find the wording in the TikTok's off putting. This isn't phrased as something the mother, Lindsay Clancy 'did'. It's something that 'happened to her' and that she 'needs support'.
On a tangential note: This reminds me of an older sex war question surrounding female violence towards children and how women are treated in society. Specifically the terminology of SIDS. Sudden Infrant Death Syndrome. Which became a notable issue when multiple women who murdered their own children ended up, after a few years, being released scot-free. Neven Sesardić, a Croatian philosopher, wrote a very interesting article published in the British Journal for the Philosophy of Science. Specifically relating to Sally Clark, a woman in the UK who was accused of murdering two of her children, and some relevant statistical analysis that cast aspersions on the validity of SIDS as it was relied on by expert witnesses to defend Clark in court. Along with leveraging statistical critiques against the Royal Statistical Society.
The tangential relevance here is whether or not Lindsay Clancy will be afforded similar legal leniency on top of everything else. Though with the hellish nature of the crime, one could only really hope for punishments that far exceed all the comforts that a lifetime in a women's prison will afford her.
If she suffered a psychotic break this could indeed be correct no? There is a reason why we have insanity defenses and the like, sometimes people are not responsible for their own actions. We don't have enough information either way here it appears, but a suicide attempt might be indicative. It also may not be and she is a manipulative murderer.
It does not appear uncommon for parents under stress (and often sleep deprived) to have intrusive thoughts (there was a time period when my first 3 kids were all not sleeping that lasted about a week or 10 days, where I was very close to snapping), and it is probably important that this is talked about, so that people who do have those thoughts don't feel there is no support and the thoughts turn to actions. A Clinical psychologist says:
"Postpartum psychosis is extremely rare, comprising about 0.01 to 0.02 percent of cases of postpartum depression, Goldberg and Sukhera said.
The condition is marked by hallucinations, delusions, hearing voices and a detachment from reality, Goldberg said. Only about 5 percent of those diagnosed with postpartum psychosis will attempt to harm themselves or their children, she said.
"The numbers are very small, but the cases are very serious," she said. "If someone is having thoughts of harming themselves or their child, it should be taken very seriously."
Her husband (who knows her better than any of us) is reported to say she had some kind of condition which might support some kind of mental illness.
"He added that her “condition” had recently worsened, even though he did not specify what she was battling." and “The real Lindsay was generously loving and caring towards everyone — me, our kids, family, friends, and her patients. The very fibers of her soul are loving. All I wish for her now is that she can somehow find peace,” he added.
She should still be tried given the circumstances but if the outcome is that she needs psychiatric treatment then it may indeed have been something that happened to her, like getting cancer or schizophrenia. It's certainly possible she fooled her husband but it would seem the most likely explanation of an otherwise normal mother murdering her kids and attempting suicide who was suffering from some kind of worsening condition according to the person who knew her best is that she was mentally ill. If it is true that more support for future mothers is able to identify cases where kids would be at risk then that seems reasonable as well.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link