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PaperclipPerfector
1d ago
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Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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Tagging @fmac, @Mantergeistmann, and @JarJarJedi since they've expressed interest in this.
I'm actually familiar with this area as I've been a passholder at the resort for the past 20 years and while I was unaware of the exact situation, maybe I can shed some light on it. The resort is divided into the Front Face, which faces the main lodge and the main parking lot, and the North Face, which faces woods on the opposing mountain. The Front Face was the original part of the resort until it expanded onto the North Face in the 70s and 80s. The North Face is smaller acreage-wise (by a little) but has longer, steeper runs. When I ski here, which is often, we spend most of our time on the North side. This is the opinion of most of the more serious skiers and regulars.
The property in question is at the farthest end of the North Face. You can see the house the guy built from the bend on Lost Girl trail where it starts to head downhill. There's a sketchy shot through the trees you can take to get to the front of the house. We used to take this if there was enough snow because there's a hillside in front that's loaded with powder that nobody ever skis. There's some kind of road we'd ski on or near before heading into the woods. If you kept skiing in the direction of the resort it would pop out in an officially marked glade that would take you back to the lift. I haven't skied this in a while, and they have since put up Keep Out signs. It's a decent little woods shot but usually not worth it.
For the past decade plus we were under two assumptions that are now apparently incorrect. The first was that the house was owned by Pirates owner Bob N?Nutting, who also owned the resort until a few years ago and still owns a lot of nearby real estate and related properties (he still owns the golf course, for example). We were also under the impression that the flat area we skied down to was for parking and the road we were skiing on was the driveway, but apparently this isn't true either, because the photos show the driveway and garage on the uphill side of the house. The upshot of all of this is that the entire area is criss-crossed by roads of varying quality. The road we were skiing was probably an old logging road that isn't maintained by anyone. The road at issue here, Neals Run Rd., is about a lane wide and gravel, and has conspicuous "No Winter Maintenance" signs at the Indian Head terminus.
This surfeit of dirt roads means that my friends and I have spent considerable time riding our gravel bikes in the area. You can ride the entire 70 mile length of Laurel Mountain from Ohiopyle to Johnstown practically without leaving gravel. I few years ago I was toying with the idea of putting a biking guide together for the area and rating gravel roads based on the following criteria:
A roads are hard-packed gravel roads that are well-traveled and are suitable for passenger vehicles. They are kept clear of brush and maintained regularly. They may be kept clear in the winter. Riding on these is similar to riding on crushed limestone rail trails.
B roads receive considerably less traffic and may be gated. These are usually traversable by passenger vehicles, though some sections may be tricky or even impassible. High-clearance vehicles will have no problem. They are narrow and are subject to blowdowns and washouts that may take some time to repair. Gravel may be loose. These may include steep sections that have grades in excess of typical standards. Riding on these should not pose problems for gravel bikes, but be prepared to walk some sections. Winter maintenance is unlikely.
C roads are unmaintained and are always gated. Blowdown is almost never cleared. Some of these roads are marked as hiking trails. They are often overgrown, swampy, eroded, or excessively steep. If maintained in winter, it is as snowmobile or cross-country ski trails. They may be passable to high-clearance 4WD vehicles, though some spots may be tricky even for them. Gravel bikes may find these roads problematic, at least in sections.
D roads may appear on old maps but are not on current maps and are not gated as they are not formally recognized as passages, though parts of some may have been repurposed into hiking trails. No maintenance is done whatsoever and hiking or biking these is more comparable to cross-country travel than to hiking or gravel riding. Attempting to bike these is not recommended.
I have not personally traveled the length of Neals Run Rd., so I can't be entirely sure of its condition, but based on parts I've seen and the description of it it rates as a B, though the part through the resort would rate as an A since it is maintained for summer access (I have extensive experience with this part). There is a rail trail in Indian Head and a really good gravel network in the vicinity of the resort. Some friends of mine decided to take Neals Run Rd. up the mountain from Indian Head and cut through the resort to access those roads. I wasn't with them, but they told me if I wanted to experience it I'd have to do it by myself because they would not be riding it again. One of these friends is an absolute beast who invites me to ride the kind of thing I've already done and have no desire to ride again, and I'm not averse to doing huge mountain climbs, so for him to come to the conclusion that that ride sucked means something. Needless to say I haven't been eager to see firsthand what he was talking about, though I guess I could ride up a different way and ride it down.
That road is the only legal access to these properties. There are some A roads in the area with no winter maintenance and occasionally cars will get stuck and have to be dug out. I once came across a FedEx truck stuck in a ditch in the absolute middle of nowhere on a road I was XC skiing on because the numbnuts driver blindly followed his GPS. As I went further towards the pavement, I came across the tow truck he called to get him out, which was also stuck. I can only imagine how bad it gets on a B road in winter. It's about 4 road miles and a thousand feet of elevation gain between Indian Head and Seven Springs, and while that isn't out of line for roads in the area, it looks like the ones I've done gain elevation at a more or less consistent rate by climbing the slope, while Neals Run follows the creek into the slope before cutting up and gaining a huge chunk all at once. I'm thinking out load here, so I beg your pardon, but based on the maps it seems like this would be even more treacherous than a typical gravel road in the area.
If you look straight down the hill, though, the lots are only about 1500 feet from Trout Run Rd. This is also a township road that may or may not be subject to an agreement giving the resort exclusive use, but it provides access to the lower lift stations on the North Face and continues for some ways beyond them, and as such is kept clear in the winter. My guess is that the old logging road we skied on, or another nearby road, goes down to Trout Run Rd. across undeveloped resort property and he had the idea that they would let him develop and use this road for accessing the properties. Regardless of whether Trout Run is open to public traffic or not (and it wouldn't surprise me if it were, since there are a few odd lots you can park at if you know how to get to them, and during the summer you can damn near drive all over the resort [when they had a downhill bike park I would park directly under the main lift in what is normally the middle of a ski run]), I doubt they want additional traffic on what is essentially a private access road. Furthermore, I can all but guarantee you that the resort does all the maintenance on this road, and they're loathe to do it for the benefit of third parties.
There's also the additional wrinkle that running ski resorts is expensive, seasonal, and weather-dependent, and in a bid to even out their revenue streams, resorts have increasingly looked towards related businesses. Using the resorts as bike parks in the summer is one example, but the big one is real estate. When Bob Nutting sold 7 Springs to Vail resorts he only sold the ski operations and wisely held on to all the real estate surrounding the resort. Whether Nutting or Vail is in charge, though, neither wants some rich doofus marketing ski-in properties on what is rightfully their land, land that isn't even near the area they've targeted for investment and that they'd prefer to keep in a more natural state. It's also worth mentioning that these would only be ski-in in the loosest definition of the term, as there's no formal access, it may not be open early or late season, and half of the North Face closes at 4 pm year round, limiting its appeal to those who like night skiing. Aside from the few ski-in condos that are formally available on land developed by the resort, there are other resort-developed (they are privately owned but were sold as part of an official development plan) condos that have free shuttle buses for access. There are, of course, totally private vacation homes in the area that are the equivalent of off-campus university housing, but like off-campus housing you have to get to the resort yourself, and this is expected. Advertising these as ski-in is problematic in that it creates the impression that access is greater than it really is, where anyone renting these places would quickly find out that for how close they are to the slopes, much of the time those renting them would have to drive to the resort and park in the lot anyway.
So he sued for abandonment, thinking that if he got a ruling that forced the resort to keep their part of the road open he could use that as leverage to get them to grant him an easement. The traditional argument would be that the resorts control over the road rendered his property landlocked and since there was an existing public road he would be entitled to a right of way. The problem was that his property wasn't landlocked, his access was just inconvenient. The bigger problem is that if the resort shut down, or even closed the North Face, his property would be worth even less than it already was. So it was painfully obvious to the court that he didn't actually want the relief he was seeking, and he had to compensate the resort for the inconvenience.
There is one postscript to this, though, that I feel needs to be mentioned: He got his easement. And in some sense, his plan worked, because the suit essentially forced Seven Springs to grant him one, though he may gotten lucky because of the sale. So it's 2023, and Bob Nutting has sold 7 Springs to Vail Resorts. The suit against Hudock has been decided, and he has to pay $600,000, either in damages or as an appeal bond. The problem is that Hudock doesn't have that kind of cash; the only assets he has are the properties. Now the resort is in a bind because in order to show that they were serious about wanting to collect the damages they have to actually try to collect, lest the tables be turned on them, and they obviously have the means to pay a cash settlement if Hudock sues them for the same thing they just sued him for.
One option would be for them to just put judgment liens against the properties and foreclose if necessary. Unfortunately the properties aren't worth all that much on their own, given that they they were just the subject of litigation concerning how worthless they are without access. The resort can develop the properties themselves and grant access, but now they have to pay for that and also make the necessary improvements, and probably formalize a shuttle/ski-in/better access then telling guests to drive to the public lots. Furthermore, when Nutting sold to Vail he reserved all the real estate development rights for himself and would have no problem suing if Vail started acquiring properties to compete with him. So in 2023, they granted Hudock an easement. He was able to sell the house he built for 1.1 million, which would presumably net him enough money to put up an appeal bond, and in the future he'd be able to sell his lots. The downside is he can no longer enjoy the house for himself, but from a business perspective, it's not a horrible outcome.
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