This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I think your analysis of the mechanics is fair, but doesn’t solve the issue.
The driver seems to be trying to leave, not run down an officer. He’s crossing in front of the car and nearly out of the way, and yet as soon as the car shifts to forward he has his gun out and is shooting.
If a car begins accelerating towards you and your split second reaction is to go for your gun, I’m questioning your motives. The fact that a car is dangerous isn’t relevant, because it’s not clear he was fearing for his life!
Suppose for a minute an officer is directing traffic. He looks over, and sees a driver, texting, heading in his direction. To shoot in that scenario, instead of moving out of the way, would be deranged. The only reason it’s being defended here, as I see it, is because the driver is disobeying ICE orders.
The ICE agent was very clearly standing in a spot where the vehicle could not move forward without hitting him. You yourself agree with this assessment ("I think your analysis of the mechanics is fair, but doesn’t solve the issue."). How can you possibly determine the intention of her actions by what her actions were ? In both cases the results of either action would be exactly the same, she can't leave without hitting him. Trying to run down the officer looks exactly like trying to escape when the officer is a foot in front of your car!
She follows them around, gets ahead of them, parks in the street, waits for them to get out, waits until a guy is right in front of her, then hits the gas. That doesn't seem at all like she was trying to leave.
"Ah yes, you can see the woman has pure motives, she was just trying to leave, I can tell my a frame by frame analysis of her tire movements. But ICE agent, he reached for his gun while he was a foot in front of accelerated into him, that's suspicious!"
The dangerousness of a car hitting a person is irrelevant to that persons fear for their life? Really?
Unfortunately this is where we get to both repeat different versions of the narrative at each other, even in the face of multiple video angles.
She reversed initially, basically doing a shallow 3-point turn, as he was crossing in front of the car. It seems almost certain to me that she was not trying to run over the agent, she likely didn’t know he was there. Not only that, but the agent was out of the way, or trivially able to move out of the way. (He was not significantly struck by the vehicle, although the exact mechanics are messy because he stumbles a bit on the side.) Why pull a gun there?
To say she “waits until a guy is right in front of her, then hits the gas” is to imply she was actively trying to kill him, instead of being careless. It’s also just not accurate!
I think there’s an extremely strong case that it was clear she was not attempting to kill the agent, and that he would have known that, and that his reaction was comically incompetent. I would speculate he was frustrated, aggressive, and panicked, and turned what was at worst reckless endangerment into an execution.
Even granting we are reading different narratives, I just don't see a difference between "I intentionally tried to run this guy over" and "I was trying to escape law enforcement and in my escape I was so negligent in my driving that I hit a man directly in front of my windshield"
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link