This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm open to that, I just want ideally to:
a) set an expectation that it has to be really, really bad before the company starts cutting you off. Apocalypse bad, not misgendering-bad or said-nigger bad
b) require serious defence of the above assertion to a hostile audience
Killing people isn't that hard. If you're worried about big society-spanning plagues then those are difficult (plague is spread by fleas, are you breeding those too?) and potentially possible to mitigate without sending the police into everybody's browser. I don't want 'suppress info' to be the default response.
In the software world we call this "missing test coverage". If your safety features don't get tested until any test failure is apocalyptic, you don't actually have safety features. Maybe we should be picking more politically neutral or less politically relevant test cases, but anything is better than nothing.
If they're pre-existing plagues, then they're difficult-to-impossible. Anything you can get by introducing a few mutations into some virus is at most a few mutations away from a virus that wasn't currently a society-spanning plague. Centuries ago you could have a germ slowly co-evolve with the immune systems of some subset of humanity and then eventually make its way out to devastate a larger immunologically unprepared population, but these days there aren't many subsets of humanity that aren't at most a weekly airplane flight away from the rest of us.
If they're not pre-existing plagues, it's kind of harder to say, isn't it? Gunpowder would have been a pretty awesome capability for a predator to have, but it was impossible to evolve except by the extremely roundabout method of "get intelligence to come up with it". There may be similarly awesome capabilities that are only possible to put into germs in the same way.
Nor do I ... but while I'm libertarian enough to have voted (L) in every presidential election, I'm also pessimistic enough to wonder whether how amenable to my desires the universe really is. Totalitarian suppression of change is itself an existential risk, whether it fails (which historically tends to be a bloody process) or succeeds (in which case a "boot crushing a
humansapient face forever" is itself a possible contributor to the Fermi paradox), but the seemingly-obvious solution of "just don't do that" might seem less obvious in a world where a home biolab ends up being a thousand times more dangerous than an airline ticket and a boxcutter were in our world.More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link