This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Maybe the "antisemites" should.
I can feel a very clear border when talking to many of my foreign co-workers. There are topics beyond discussion because all parties know there isn't one to to be had. It would in fact be an insult to even broach them. Yet here I sit, my entire culture now revolving around how to accommodate their viewpoints within the nation my ancestors made.
Looking at the big picture it's all futile. They get a say in your land, you get no say in theirs. Their customs are sacred, yours are at best arbitrary and certainly up for critique and debate. They have a just cause, you have guilt and sin. And if you want to keep the peace then that's the truth. This dynamic has been playing out wherever immigrants stake their claim in the west. At some point it's just stupid not to point out how this all goes.
They ultimately recognize their common cause as outsiders who are trying to keep their foot in the door. Keeping my ear full of how great their country is and how bad mine is yet somehow never stumble on the idea that they are here for a reason that might impugn that assessment. That maybe because their countries have one too many a person with exactly their type of temperament and opinion is the reason why they find themselves traveling thousands of miles to a country with, apparently, worse weather, worse food, dumber laws, worse religion and more racists.
Humility would go a long way, but no. The most common explanation I get when I point this out is that somewhere along the way those nasty Europeans did evil to them and theirs, so they now have to come here. Well... What great neighbors I have!
More options
Context Copy link