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That’s fair, and pretty obvious. What someone chooses to say on a first date reveals what they think is high-status and interesting about themselves. If that for you is discussion of the dating market in analytical terms, that’s pretty sad and does say something about where your head is at. As I recall, I don’t know that any first date of mine has had much analysis of anything — I’m introspective but that’s not really first date material. I guess I would sometimes be philosophical, but in an upbeat way, about how I like to think about the world and consider the way the world could be improved and how people could treat each other better. That’s the right level of abstraction on my interests for early dating. But the best relationship I’ve ever had started with me in full public speaking about ideas mode, I chalk this up to a rare alignment of the stars. (Astrology on a first date is also a red flag.)
But I don’t think OP was trying to discuss it on dates, as he said, but with friends. But it’s not really light friendship material either. You have to really know someone and they have to either be a high decoupler as someone else said, or you have to have a really good reason to bring it up. Same-gender friendships are more constructive for it than opposite-gender ones.
I kind of started rambling on but now I think about it, basically the relevant ideas are. SMV has a very bad reputation so people don't engage with it.
If they are fine with it people may not want to compromise on romance because it is not an instrumental goal, if someone wants to eat a sweet apple you can't logically convince them to a eat a unripe apple just because it is still an apple.
You could in the past with lot of social pressure but now women can be happy even without a man.
Even if SMV is true for a lot of people it doesn't matter for a subset of people because of the reason listed above.
Why waste time and feel bad thinking about SMV when you know your standards are not going to change, that is just going to make you sad.
I kind of get what you’re saying, but your wording is a bit freeform so I’m having trouble following you.
I think what you’re saying is, “women don’t engage with this framing because it has a bad reputation and will pollute you with it, even if you engage with it, it couldn’t affect your behavior much because you’re already doing what you can to be attractive and your standards aren’t a matter of choice so it doesn’t give you any new information, and the view talks about people’s relative status and that’s painful to talk about.”
Yeah, if that’s what you mean, that’s a solid explanation. I think the truth is that people generally understand the things about SMV on an intuitive level, and discussing it explicitly just feels too painful or too impersonal or too abstract in a way people don’t really ever apply to the things that worry or concern themselves the most.
In private, with trusted friends, of course people discuss harsh things about attractiveness and dating sometimes. But discussing gender issues in mixed-sex company is like discussing feces at the dinner table.
That is an absolutely hilarious metaphor, kudos
I'd disagree. If you understand what gives SMV you can optimize for that instead. If you refuse to acknowledge the existence of SMV altogether -- which is what a lot of women seem to do IME -- good luck optimizing for anything as a guy.
I'd disagree. If you have an accurate view on what kind of partner you can realistically get, you'd make a more optimal partner choice.
I mean this is the classic loop.
Dating Coaches/'ANDREW TATE'/whatever gives advice that's actually broadly actionable but couched in sexism whilst the Longhouse gives either nothing or actively counterproductive advice like 'be yourself' or 'wait and the right one will come'. Whilst the former isn't perfect, it's still far more likely to work than the latter but women don't like the vibe of the former thus complain. Endless loop of content hot takes.
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