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Recursive thinking, Newcomb's problem, and free will

felipec.substack.com

Newcomb's problem splits people 50/50 in two camps, but the interesting thing is that both sides think the answer is obvious, and both sides think the other side is being silly. When I created a video criticizing Veritasium's video This Paradox Splits Smart People 50/50 I received a ton of feedback particularly from the two-box camp and I simply could not convince anyone of why they were wrong.

That lead me to believe there must be some cognitive trap at play: someone must be not seeing something clearly. After a ton of debates, reading the literature, considering similar problems, discussing with LLMs, and just thinking deeply, I believe the core of the problem is recursive thinking.

Some people are fluent in recursivity, and for them certain kind of problems are obvious, but not everyone thinks the same way.

My essay touches Newcomb's problem, but the real focus is on why some people are predisposed to a certain choice, and I contend free will, determinism, and the sense of self, all affect Newcomb's problem and recursivity fluency predisposes certain views, in particular a proper understanding of embedded agency must predispose a particular (correct) choice.

I do not see how any of this is not obvious, but that's part of the problem, because that's likely due to my prior commitments not being the same as the ones of people who pick two-boxes. But I would like to hear if any two-boxer can point out any flaw in my reasoning.

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I didn't say correlation was necessary, I said correlation was sufficient.

Building your strategy on causal understanding is better than building it on correlation. Correlation is for when you don't know the causation, when you do have the causation, it's not needed and you should instead reason on causation.

I does allow the conclusion I stated.

No, the conclusion you stated is incorrect.

Choice and prediction.

But your choice isn't information you can use to affect your choice. Correlation is not the same as causation, so it's only useful for observation.

Your ice cream example, as artificial as it is, works, because you can observe how much ice cream you ate and use that as a proxy for the time of year. But as soon as you're deciding how much ice cream to eat, it's no longer useful because that's not the way the causation runs. You can't make sun screen more effective by eating more icecream. And that's why taking the causation into account allows for superior results.

If x is more likely than y, that means a rational agent should expect x more than y.

That's true, but neither stated rigorously (which you'd need for actual mathematical argument) nor very interesting, and it's not the claim that needed defending. Or at least it's not clear how what you said follows from this. Also, you still haven't clarified the stork example.

Building your strategy on causal understanding is better than building it on correlation.

If causation is available, which in this case it's not. Even then I would argue that all the causation you think you know are nothing more than hypotheses directly reliant on observed correlation.

No, the conclusion you stated is incorrect.

It is demonstrably the case that one-boxing leads the better outcomes. It can be demonstrated mathematically and empirically.

I can write a computer simulation and compare the outcomes of one-boxers with the outcomes of two-boxers. The outcomes of one-boxers are always superior.

You "argument" against that is ipse dixit. "Nuh uh, it does not". That's not serious.

But your choice isn't information you can use to affect your choice.

Another ipse dixit. Yes it is.

Did you even read my essay? It starts with an example that shows the correct choice depends on your choice. I already proved you wrong.

Your ice cream example, as artificial as it is, works, because you can observe how much ice cream you ate and use that as a proxy for the time of year.

No, it works because all anyone needs is correlation, which is evidence of causation.

That's true, but neither stated rigorously (which you'd need for actual mathematical argument) nor very interesting, and it's not the claim that needed defending.

Probability theory is stated rigorously. I don't need to prove what has already been proven.

If causation is available, which in this case it's not.

Causation absolutely is available in Newcomb, because the statement of the though experiment describes the causation. In Ice Cream, because we know how ice cream and sun screen work.

It is demonstrably the case that one-boxing leads the better outcomes. It can be demonstrated mathematically and empirically.

  1. That was not the claim I was calling out
  2. It correlates with better outcomes. Whether this is the same as it being the right decision is disagreed upon.
  3. It can also be demonstrated mathematically that two-boxing is "better", by showing that it is the dominant strategy. That's why it's a paradox.
  4. It's a thought experiment. There is no empirical data available. And even if there were, I've repeatedly explained to you how correlation doesn't allow for such conclusion.

I can write a computer simulation and compare the outcomes of one-boxers with the outcomes of two-boxers.

No, you can't, because you have no satisfying way to operationalize Omega's prediction without breaking the causal structure of the thought experiment.

Did you even read my essay? It starts with an example that shows the correct choice depends on your choice.

  1. I've read it. And you asserted it wasn't a paradox, and your "proof" was that a different example isn't a paradox. That's not a valid argument.
  2. Your example is about the probability distribution of the outcomes. This does not counter my argument "your choice isn't information you can use to affect your choice".

Probability theory is stated rigorously.

Your claims aren't. Hence, they aren't probability theory, and you can't appeal to "probability theory" without doing the work to establish that your questioned claims follow from probability theory. For which you'd need to state them rigorously.

Causation absolutely is available in Newcomb, because the statement of the though experiment describes the causation.

That causation is irrelevant.

It can also be demonstrated mathematically that two-boxing is "better", by showing that it is the dominant strategy.

That's like saying saying two-boxing leads to better outcomes if we assume two-boxing leads to better outcomes. It's circular reasoning.

You assume we have to ignore the probability of the predictor. There's zero justification for that, other than the fact that you want the result to be two-box.

No, you can't, because you have no satisfying way to operationalize Omega's prediction without breaking the causal structure of the thought experiment.

Yes I can. It is trivial.

And you asserted it wasn't a paradox, and your "proof" was that a different example isn't a paradox.

No. Each example is standalone.

  • If you choose an answer to this question at random, what is the chance that you will be correct? A) 25% B) 0% C) 0% D) 0%

That example is not a paradox, and the answer depends on the choice.

Hence, they aren't probability theory, and you can't appeal to "probability theory" without doing the work to establish that your questioned claims follow from probability theory.

My claims follow directly from probability theory.

If p=0.99, then it follows that:

(1/n) Σᵢ₌₁ⁿ Xᵢ → 0.99

This is pretty much a tautology in probability theory.