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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32801 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 20, 2023

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The social and the economic defy such simple modeling. What is the good life is socially mediated, if that conception includes kids I can't really say the woman is getting the worse deal, if it doesn't then it is a bad deal. Seeing as women can't really directly the compare the two experiences they need to rely on the stories society tells to inform them, and society does not seem to be trying very hard to sell parenthood.

Fair enough. What I mean to convey is the idea that our economic conditions to some extent determine which social narratives we find compelling. The idea is that ~everyone is presented with competing social narratives that explain their present (or future) life situation. What narratives we find compelling is, in part, a product of our actual experience. As the actual facts about individuals experience shift, so too do their decisions about what narratives are convincing explanations. Historically the nature of labor made it easy to accept the social narrative that regarded men as the productive worker and women as the child carer or homemaker. As economic conditions have shifted, so too have the narratives women (and men!) have found compelling.

The group that does this, or at least advertises they'd be willing to do this, is having significantly less children than the group that doesn't put any effort into advertising this.

I think this fact is due to other causal factors than this attitude, but fair enough.

And, frankly, the meme that men aren't pulling their weight in domestic tasks doesn't ring true to me at all, it seems like just an empty grievance from centuries past that only persists because of the women are wonderful effect.

Can you back up this "seems" with data? According to Gallup both men and women agree that women generally shoulder more of the burden with respect to domestic duties and child care.

Men seem to be pulling their weight and the domestic tasks besides the ones directly involved with caring for the baby take only a handful of hours a week to maintain.

I would know, I personally do nearly all of them each week while working from home just during calls.

I am a little confused. In another comment you say you are "working on" becoming a father, or pumping out babies. Do you currently have children? My impression (admittedly from my brother rather than personal experience) is that babies take much more than "a handful of hours a weeK" in care.

Can you back up this "seems" with data? According to Gallup both men and women agree that women generally shoulder more of the burden with respect to domestic duties and child care.

Even in that link when it gets broken down to both earn similar amounts there really isn't that big of a gap. The show it reducing both with newer generations and with both people earning similar amounts but not combined, both combined probably gives "both equally" a plurality. it's already 50% for "care for child on a daily basis" just with equal incomes. This is actually surprisingly egalitarian.

I am a little confused. In another comment you say you are "working on" becoming a father, or pumping out babies. Do you currently have children? My impression (admittedly from my brother rather than personal experience) is that babies take much more than "a handful of hours a weeK" in care.

I do not, I'm referring to all domestic tasks besides the direct child rearing. Perhaps we're confusing terms, a lot of the discussion that does happen about domestic work refers to things like cleaning, laundering, cooking, and shopping. There actually isn't really that much public discussion at all about the proportion or types of time spent directly caring for the kids. Likely because no one really wants to be spending time doing the dishes but people have more complicated relationships with the time they spend directly caring for a kid. Which is at the same time some of the most meaningful time and frequently consisting of unpleasantness. It's the kind of thing divorced parents frequently fight viciously for more of.

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