site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 20, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

15
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I don't want to put on a clownshow and have ready made lines and stage shit just to be considered worth having gone out with, that is not how humans operate. I am not ready to dispense all my sense of self-respect.

I think this is just an update of how we used to have to do it pre-mobile phones. You think you just approached a girl you really wanted on a wing and a prayer? You thought about what you wore, what you looked like, had some good lines, hell, maybe you brought a wingman to make you look good. None of this is new. It is exactly how people operate. You leveraged everything you possibly could. Sure if you just want to pick a girl up in a bar, for sex, then whatever, low pressure, though even there if you were going out with that in mind, you would definitely dress and plan accordingly, but we are specifically talking about looking for your marriage partner.

Your one job at the start is to get your foot in the door. And that means putting your best foot forward. Especially if you are aiming for someone high-value who therefore would have had a lot of approaches. The beginning stages of flirtation and courtship are all about making yourself look as good as you possibly can. If you're not willing to do that, then you will probably lose to the people who are. With my first wife, I fell for her the day I saw her, so I found out she was going to a mutual friends party and then I found out everything I could about her, talked to a couple of female friends about her, had my buddy there to wingman. A person to love is unlikely to fall into your lap. Working for it is going to increase your odds.

Now there is another option, after my first wife passed, I met my second wife through a group of friends and we were friends first, and dated second. That way your foot is in the door in a different way. That is a much lower pressure situation, but it's much less certain. It's a more passive approach (at least at first). But requires you to be able to tell when someone is interested in you (or hope she will take initiative which is a gamble). It's definitely still workable.

But OLD is a replacement for the first method, the cold pick up where you don't know the woman in advance, and that largely hasn't changed in how you have to get that first yes as far as I can tell having had experience of both. You have to work to signal you are someone worth paying attention to. And yes, being conventionally attractive reduces the amount of work you might have to do for sure, just to be clear.