If the gas peaker plant starts up, the battery can flood the market, diminishing the price and cutting the peaker’s revenue. If the peaker does not start, the battery can enjoy a high level of revenue for as long as the demand persists. If the peaker wants to lock in a given price level, they will have to pay the battery operator a fair market price for this opportunity, or else take their ball and go home. Given that they have precisely no cards in their hand, it’s turned out to be a bit of a shakedown.
If the battery and the peaker flood the market, the battery doesn't make any money either. It's like he considers battery power unlimited. It is the other way around: The peaker is the one with virtually unlimited supply at a given price. Once the battery is empty, the peaker can make bank.
If battery and solar is or will be so cheap, there is no need for an argument. Even the most die-hard climate denier would not pay more for fossil fuel. But this has not been our experience these last years: the greens said it was already cheap, but in actuality it was expensive and subsidized.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Could you tell me specific critiques you have of Handmer's analysis? Or even better can you steelman his position?
If the battery and the peaker flood the market, the battery doesn't make any money either. It's like he considers battery power unlimited. It is the other way around: The peaker is the one with virtually unlimited supply at a given price. Once the battery is empty, the peaker can make bank.
If battery and solar is or will be so cheap, there is no need for an argument. Even the most die-hard climate denier would not pay more for fossil fuel. But this has not been our experience these last years: the greens said it was already cheap, but in actuality it was expensive and subsidized.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link