Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.
- 3
- 3
What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
To what extent are Russians correct in calling modern liberal America and Europe "genocidal Nazis preparing to launch Nuclear Barbarossa"? © Adûnâi (2026-07-08)
As you may know, since 2014 Russia and the West have ever increasingly been on a collision course to war. The modern cultural perception of the West in Russia is colored by a number of things - including old Bolshevik third-worldist propaganda about "evil White colonisers", coupled with ancient Stalinist conflation of the Anglo-French with the German Hitlerians (Molotov-Ribbentrop apologia to prevent an Anglo-German alliance to kill all Slavs), and now with the Ukrainian ethnic cleansing (Balkan style petty ethnic nationalism against Russians in the Ukraine).
Now, what are the actual arguments, pro and con?
Pro 1 - German tanks are literally invading Russia. Anglo-French missiles are raining on Russian cities. There's effectively been a state of war between Russia and the West for years at this point, Russia is simply too degenerate to respond. This is a huge point, culturally speaking - Germany was never forced to apologise for genociding 30 million Russians and Poles, only the 6 million Jews, Roma, homosexualists and disabled persons. So the German vehicles invading Russia are equivalent to Germany reconstituting the Auschwitz death camp and burning Jews alive in the ovens once more - with the civilised Western world turning a blind eye to it.
Pro 2 - the West is supporting the Ukrainian state which is notoriously brutal, committing many war crimes, supporting terrorism around the world (Moscow, Monaco, Mali), abducting and torturing its own citizens in broad daylight in the streets of Kiev, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkhov, even Lemberg - this ought to revivify the old imagery of Nazis deporting Jews to death camps, yet the Western media are totally silent on this. (Ukrainians also famously throw Hitler salutes, although not sure why as they are ruled by a Jewish president.)
Pro 3 - the West has gone on a massive rearmament campaign for its whole European part, German industry, Polish armed forces, German forces in Lithuania, nuclear sharing with Finland; the conventional supremacy of Europe over Russia alone is many times over, thus clearly noting the West's readiness to turn this war nuclear since day 1.
Now, these are all quite obvoius and steel-manned arguments for the Russian side. Yet numerous objections exist, too. Let's have a look.
Con 1 - Nazi Germany was an explicitly pro-White ethnostate with materialistic goals in acquiring Russian land and genociding its inhabitants; the West is the opposite - anti-White, anti-materialistic, it has no interest in settling virgin soil with sturdy peasants, it never talks about the good of its ethnic comrades, or living space, or blood and soil, absolutely nothing.
Con 2 - the West remains fanatical in its "White man's burden" raison d'être to increasing the quality of life, bringing peace and prosperity to the whole non-Western world, unlike Hitler's Germany which was focused on its own well-being at terrible cost to its neighbours.
Con 3 - Hitler's Germany was a European project that explicitly banned "entartete Kunst" such as jazz music, it was anti-feminist in removing women from the places of learning, and it was pagan in valuing beautiful animals above ugly humans; the modern West is exactly the opposite - the Ukrainians uglify their own folk songs with metal rock covers, they kill their men but women walk around like queens, and animal welfare is completely outside the political/religious sphere.
Granted, Russians overall call everyone "Nazi" who's genocidal - especially those who want to genocide Russia. So they don't care if they are being slaughtered by LGBT rights or by Nordic supremacists, as the Russians turn into corpses all the same. But the crux of the matter is that the Westerners themselves in this cyberspace barely conceive of their empire as such - as capable of burning alive tens of millions of Russians this decade in an invasion surpassing the mythical Operation Barbarossa when Adolf Hitler launched his continental War of Extermination (Vernichtungskrieg) in 1941 CE. Just how come such a massive Baurdillard-esque parallel reality is possible? Is it because the brain-washing power of Western propaganda is so total, and the death of the anti-war pacifist movement so complete? Or are the Westerners truly "Nazi" under their veneer of civilisation, and they secretly yearn for it?
The visions of Nuclear Barbarossa fascinate my mind, with hundreds of nukes launched from the submarines onto the Russian silos and storage facilities, and thousands of Polish tanks blitzing through Belarus, precipitating Moscow's fall... And yet nobody else in the world is gripped by it? Maybe not Nazi per se, but still the largest genocide since Tojo.
More options
Context Copy link