This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There is effectively no libertarian policy presence because there is basically no libertarian constituency. The “low social control and low economic control” quadrant of the political spectrum is effectively empty among the non-elite, which is basically what you’d expect since it doesn’t really benefit most of the population as much except in extremely diffuse ways and it harms them in very visible ways.
And of course implementing private surveillance is exactly what libertarians do, along with most other opportunities to leverage technology to their benefit. The fact that a small number of elites will be able to do such things if not prevented by government is part of why it’s such a popular belief among elites and is one of the bog-standard criticisms of it from the rest of the political world.
I say all of this as someone who deeply desires an extremely libertarian society. You have to take the good with the bad. The viable political options in society are dependent on the substrate, and I don’t know that America has the requirements to sustain liberty to its historical grand extent any more without serious costs. Much like firearm regulation, the ability to own any weapon is very different in a world where the most powerful thing is a warship versus a world with McNukes. I’d take the McNuke world, but I can’t blame the public for not liking that idea.
More options
Context Copy link