This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Part of the explanation is this: Clavicular explicitly says that he does looksmaxxing to gain social and sexual status. Trans advocates, on the other hand, usually say that trans people transition to feel more comfortable with themselves, because they have intense dysphoria, etc.
Putting aside the question of whether the trans advocates' claim is accurate or not, cause that's a different topic... still, part of what is happening here is just that people tend to respond more positively to the "I am doing this because I am suffering psychologically" presentation than to the "I am doing this to for sex and money" presentation.
Of course, the reality is that Clavicular's story is that he too, as he freely admits, was suffering psychologically when he was younger. Suffering psychologically from being a nobody, from not getting girls. Not only that, but he is still suffering psychologically, as he freely admits, because his underlying personality is still that of a socially anxious introvert. He uses psychotropic drugs and the motivation of getting money to get himself to constantly go out and make influencer content.
But male desires for sex, money, and social status are widely seen as being somehow inherently wrong and disgusting. Not just on the left, but even by many people on the right. People tend to associate these pretty natural and understandable desires with the worst examples of what happens when psychologically disturbed people pursue them: rapists, social climbing sociopaths, sleazy business sharks, and so on.
A man wanting to become a woman, on the other hand, does not activate these associations. Becoming a woman might conceivably get a particularly sexually unsuccessful man more sex than he would have had otherwise, but becoming a woman is popularly conceived (whether accurately or not) as something that would make the sex that the person gives to others less dominant and aggressive. Becoming a woman is also not popularly thought of as something that would give the man more social status. Yes, there are cases of trans activists using trans issues as a way to status climb, but it is popularly understood that men on average have more social status than women and that most of the world's most powerful people are men. In reality, the average young woman probably has more social status than the average young man, but that might be a point that is too subtle for the average observer to grasp.
Another point is that: Yes, Clavicular in a sense is doing gender-affirming medical treatments just like some trans people do gender-affirming medical treatments. But he is going beyond gender-affirming treatments and doing gender-maxxing. So the trans equivalent to Clav isn't just a man who does some relatively light gender-affirming treatments to reduce the presentation of masculinity. It's a man who tries to turn himself into a female bimbo stereotype, with fake lashes, large fake breasts, and so on.
Personally, I find nothing wrong with that, whether it's the trans person doing it or Clavicular doing it. But I think that many people are weirded out by the monomaniacal maximalism and "trying to turn yourself into a superficial stereotype" aspects of it, similar as to how many people are weirded out by extreme bodybuilders.
Interesting. I always thought people like Clavicular are bad because they teach their (often young and impressionable) viewers to lead a lifestyle that is fundamentally unhealthy whilst avoiding things that would actually be good for them. But you are stating that the reason why most people think he is bad is because he is being public about his desires for women, money, and status.
That's another big reason why people think he is bad. I just didn't mention it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link