This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Technically speaking, you can run a 3T model on 25x DGX Sparks. Not fast, but it's around 150k if you include networking and power costs. If you really don't care about speed, you could probably get a couple second-per-token on older server hardware running fully CPU under 70k, though I wouldn't recommend it.
I'm also just not seeing a route to do it. Putting Moonshot on the BIS Entity List is the nuclear option, and it'd fuck up Moonshot's business and operations a lot, but I don't think it'd actually stop anyone from using their weights legally, and might not even do much to prevent them from doing future training. And I just don't see any better avenue.
To be fair, a distillation attack typically involves massive numbers of smurfed requests, and doesn't have the fair use backing that normal transformative works would. I agree it doesn't make much philosophical sense, but it's not quite the same thing categorically.
There's also an issue where it might be only possible to pass without letting anyone access the model directly, regardless of how public. Pretty much every model is vulnerable to 'heretic' modification which changes the weights in minor ways to make it see any request as legitimate. These are widely available and, once discovered, can be performed by anyone with the weights and some hard drive space. It's mostly been helpful for writing smut in more 'circumspect' models, but there's already a lot of 100B-sized models that can independently discover serious dangers that are not well-known among the general populace (and, to be fair, some legitimate and safe uses of the model that also trigger those safeguards and thus are good reason to want a heretic model).
Not so sure. Qwen3.6 was a major step forward compared to other models of the same time, and even now it remains a good example of good ideas being able to best raw hardware or parameter count to some degree. And there is the power-and-regulation issue, where especially if China decides to really hammer on the matter, the US advantage might not stay around.
More options
Context Copy link