This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm partial to that line of argumentation. That within a modern western society the standards of living are so high and what's being asked for sacrifice is generally so little that it's basically a no brainer to earnestly participate. I think most people recognize this and earnestly participate. But on the flipside you are still getting lumps. So what's the deal there?
The following explanation, that a society with such high standards of living carries with it a variety of easily accessible vices that can demoralize people into lumps, effectively contradicts the premise of the first argument; that the standard of living in western societies is 'high'. This is compounded by the short timespan you have to succeed. Fall to the vices or miss certain milestones and suddenly homeownership and a family are a real challenge to attain.
From the perspective of a rational lump, either the vices in society are so good that being a gambling goonsimping lump is just the maximally beneficial state of being and working to rise above such an existence or sacrifice anything for it is either contradictory or simply a waste. Or, society is filled with pitfalls and vices that are functionally psychological landmines that trap you and/or rape your brain and prevent you from attaining real happiness. In which case the standard of living in a western society for people susceptible to such things is low and not worth sacrificing for.
So either the lumps are playing out a winning strategy by being maximally individualistic and hedonistic to their preference, or the game is rigged, society is garbage and the lumps are correctly opting out of earnest participation and are instead doing the minimal amount of sacrifice possible.
Or the worst case scenario is correct. Society is working as intended, trying to mind rape you into being incapacitated or enslaved for incomprehensible reasons, no one is fighting against this and the only act of self determination left is to choose which slave socket you jack yourself into or how you are going to kill yourself.
More options
Context Copy link