This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What suspension of disbelief, I was not writing a fantasy and it was just an example. The actual price of used can is around 0.5 to 1 cent. The cost of empty PET plastic bottle is tenth of that. What do you disbelieve - that you literally wash trash, store it in your flat where you pay EUR 5000 per square meter and waste time transporting it to the grocery store where it has to be processed by some vending machine with more energy and labor from store clerks and truck drivers? What did I say that is fantasy. The whole system actually depends on people not returning the thrash, just learned helplessness and accepting additional tax.
The actual benefits of these policies are net negative, countries in EU did have garbage collection solved for decades. This is just a ritual that is enforced by government on people for basically no practical reason. The social cost of this system in Slovakia is around EUR 100 million at least, maybe around 0.1% of GDP. On its own it is not so much, but it adds up with everything else. It is death by thousand cuts, there are thousands of new regulations and directives poured out of the state machine every single year, each of them associated with small cost. The end result is $20 burrito that you cannot afford. There is no simple solution to this, that was my main point.
More options
Context Copy link