This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I appreciate this look into the inner workings of a jury on a non-famous case. I've never been on a jury myself, but always suspected it would be something of a mess like this. I've always favored replacing random-citizen juries with pools of professional jurors that have law degrees. I don't see the point in having a complex trial with all sorts of legal rules and precedent, if it's all going to get throw away when the jury goes behind closed doors and does whatever the hell it wants.
I think that would be a big mistake. The constraints imposed on the legal system by needing to convince a jury of peers are critical to maintaining legitimacy and buy-in.
Without the need to convince a jury of normal people there's fewer limits on how incomprehensible or unjust the legal system can get for the average person, and the legal system depends on average people trusting it and engaging with it. As things are I think there should already be a lot more concern about the current low level of understanding and trust in the legal system.
Well, in his story it seems like not a matter of "convincing a jury of normal people," but simply convincing 1 or 2 highly emotional women, who then browbeat the rest of the jury into going along with them because they're all under financial pressure to get out of there and get back to their real job as fast as possible. The standard advice I've always heard is to avoid jury trials as much as possible and take a plea deal or arbitration instead, because juries are just so random you never know what's going to happen. So yes, there's a very low level of understanding and trust in the legal system right now.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link